Spartacusbob

I think I understand it at a basic level but there seems to be nuance I’m not getting. I’d like to make sure I understand it. Thanks in advance.

Also, I did do a forum search but maybe missed it.

ThumbsUp

Without re-stating what is already in the UPA under section, 1-B, Scope, in a nutshell, it is how the UPA applies to United pilots and the company's flying. What you commonly hear referred to as scope are the limits placed upon how the company farms out its flying to RJ subcontracts, but that is just one of many provisions. RJ flying and it's limits is covered under section 1-C.

TFAYD

you can have no more than 5 chocolate chip cookies and no more than 30 gummy bears for desert.

but the total amount of sugar you are allowed is proportional to the amount of veggies you eat.

FlewNavy

Daddy has to go to this place called “work” so you can have this nice place to live and have toys. Daddy gets paid money by the company that owns the planes. If the company Daddy works for can find a cheaper way to do Daddy’s job which is fly the plane…they will get rid of daddy which means no more toys. However….daddy got together with all the other pilots and we told the company that if they did that too much than we would all stop going to work and all the people paying money to ride the plane would be sad.

McNugent

All "United" flying should be flown by United pilots. End of story and no explanation needed.

ZapBrannigan

If you think about the phrase as “scope of work” it makes more sense. What is the scope of work assigned to your work group. And what flying exists (or is permitted by your CBA to exist) OUTSIDE of that scope of work.

So if you start by saying, “All flying in the service of United Airlines must be performed by pilots on the United Airlines master seniority list “ - that is scope. But the sentence typically continues, “except for… “ and those exceptions are the rub.

In the mid 1990s most feed was provided by 19-37 seat turboprops feeding small cities into hubs. By the late 1990s regional jets with up to 50 seats allowed airlines to not only feed hubs, but also to bypass hubs and fly long, thin routes. Or to raid competitor hubs. ALPA inexplicably permitted that flying to occur at contract feeders doing business with just about every major airline.

Around 9/11 they expanded that ability to include 70 seat RJs.

The problem arose when after 9/11 thousands of pilots were furloughed at almost every major airline. Narrowbody airplanes like the DC9, MD80, 737-200, Fokker 100, Fokker 28 were parked and in their place an armada of RJs darkened the sky flown by B-scale labor… all permitted by the association as that flying was permitted outside of scope.

Many of us spent close to a decade on furlough from the majors who employed us due to this chain of events coupled with the increase of retirement age to 65 occurring during the furlough.

Chowdah

Given the pain at this caused many mainline pilots, there is an understandable lack of nuance on this topic. A couple things to keep in mind were that the precedent was already set to farm-out flying on smaller airplanes to subcontractors. When faced with the choice between bringing a CRJ on with mainline at potentially lower rates than were palatable for mainline pilots, but much higher rates than “commuter” pilots were going to receive, versus the promises that were made of increased widebody flying with the additional feed (if the jets went to the “commuters,” many mainline pilots didn’t really bat an eye at this seemingly insignificant change. The product was crummy, and the thought that airline managements would propose and passengers would agree (with their pocket books) to spend 2 1/2 hours on an airplane that was really no more comfortable than a 70s era turboprop, was a bit unfathomable.

The proverbial cat really got out of the bag when the next generation of these jets were being developed. It seemed harder to draw a line in the sand between a 70 seat regional jet, and a 50 seat regional jet as far as scope went, because it was the same type-rating and the costs of Having to develop these fleets at separate airlines, when it would make far more sense to keep them at the company that already had an established program, meant that more promises were made, and additional scope carveouts were put in place in an attempt to allow, but limit the growth of these larger regional jets.

Between the economic downturn and absolute beating, the industry, took post 9/11, a lot of pilots didn’t have the stomach/leverage (depending on we’re you were on your seniority list) to attempt to rectify the situation that was unraveling and threatening their livelihood and career progression.

Fast forward to today, and with the advent of the embraer E-jet, you essentially have a B scale that we tolerate, because it is theoretically only for a finite time. Think residency for doctors. The schedules are rough, the pay historically was much lower, and the overall quality of life for these pilots was simply worse than mainline. Things are changing pretty rapidly… Main line companies are attempting to squeeze much more work out of their pilot group, which is affecting our quality of life, and the pay at the regionals is skyrocketing in an unsustainable manner, due to the sheer lack of bodies available. It’s a game of musical chairs, and most of the regionals are just hoping to gain back leverage through their sheer (hopeful) existence in five years.

As for international scope and codeshare agreements, I’ll let someone else handle that.

Otterbox

Scope is what prevents your boss from giving the kids next door who just learned to ride their bikes all the parts of your paper route for a penny a paper instead of paying you a dollar a paper. If he could he’d have the neighborhood kids do all of your route and cut you out completely. and he’d give them your bike too.

RatherBeVFR

Without scope, nothing else matters. We could negotiate $5,000 an hour with an MPG of 200 hours a month but if the scope allowed all of our flying to be farmed out, none of us would see those amazing rates.

BTW, we should be asking for that much cash for our next contract.

ninerdriver

United pilots fly most United flying. Regionals can't fly big planes. Regionals can only fly so many small planes.