Phone Polling
01-05-2023, 06:58 AM
#31
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
It is disappointing to read the "600" polling number.
I have always advocated Polling/Surveys to get a feel of your pilot group. But this low ball number was a bit shocking.
That being written- We can all ***** & moan on this and other forums..
OR
Get involved.
Not saying you have to volunteer (though, that would be nice~) but you can send an email to your LEC Reps AND the MEC + NC.
Be respectful and professional- but tell them what your REALLY need/want. Use some examples..
I still believe we MUST see an honest AIP/TA by the Spring. If not, this summer will fail. And when I write "fail", make no mistake- I'm not saying we will fall flat on our face and cancel left and right.. but I expect any good will that has been going on to keep this operation going will disappear.
I remember hearing about the "summer of Love" back in 2000.. and while I never expect that to happen again, once the public loses faith in our carrier for their summer travels AND sees Delta have their **** together, there's no doubt that we will fail.. ie, they expect to make X amount of Profit during the 2 & 3 quarter.. figure X MINUS a ton!
[Failing is no longer what we consider a fail, ie- didn't get there in time. It's what management and Wall Str expect this company to make, with regards to Profits and shareholder value]
[[Paying the Pilot Group a Fair, Honest UPA may sound like a lot initially... but it WILL pay them back tremendously in the future~]]
No matter what, we do (and ALWAYS will) have a responsibility to our Passengers.. along with our fellow employees and our company- and of course our self & Family
BE PROFESSIONAL!
Be SAFE!!
And Fly your Contract
Always
Motch
PS) I think it's safe to say the SouthWest Airlines has lost the public's trust & faith. The SWAPA President sent out a GREAT email and pointed out the problems that they are facing.. and who is to blame. I hope it doesn't come to that at our carrier but we shouldn't put our heads in the sand and don't think it can't!
I have always advocated Polling/Surveys to get a feel of your pilot group. But this low ball number was a bit shocking.
That being written- We can all ***** & moan on this and other forums..
OR
Get involved.
Not saying you have to volunteer (though, that would be nice~) but you can send an email to your LEC Reps AND the MEC + NC.
Be respectful and professional- but tell them what your REALLY need/want. Use some examples..
I still believe we MUST see an honest AIP/TA by the Spring. If not, this summer will fail. And when I write "fail", make no mistake- I'm not saying we will fall flat on our face and cancel left and right.. but I expect any good will that has been going on to keep this operation going will disappear.
I remember hearing about the "summer of Love" back in 2000.. and while I never expect that to happen again, once the public loses faith in our carrier for their summer travels AND sees Delta have their **** together, there's no doubt that we will fail.. ie, they expect to make X amount of Profit during the 2 & 3 quarter.. figure X MINUS a ton!
[Failing is no longer what we consider a fail, ie- didn't get there in time. It's what management and Wall Str expect this company to make, with regards to Profits and shareholder value]
[[Paying the Pilot Group a Fair, Honest UPA may sound like a lot initially... but it WILL pay them back tremendously in the future~]]
No matter what, we do (and ALWAYS will) have a responsibility to our Passengers.. along with our fellow employees and our company- and of course our self & Family
BE PROFESSIONAL!
Be SAFE!!
And Fly your Contract
Always
Motch
PS) I think it's safe to say the SouthWest Airlines has lost the public's trust & faith. The SWAPA President sent out a GREAT email and pointed out the problems that they are facing.. and who is to blame. I hope it doesn't come to that at our carrier but we shouldn't put our heads in the sand and don't think it can't!
01-05-2023, 07:04 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 805
There's no way United will get a contract that's close to Delta. The Tumi TA was concessionary and yet the union thought that was great. How will they negotiate themselves back square one and then leap forward to be on par with the current Delta work rules not to mention the new Delta AIP? United is at least 2 contract cycles behind.
Two critical points right now are our current contract limits the speed at which we can train pilots and we don't have enough people willing to get abused on reserve as captains. We are structurally at the point where if they don't give us a contract superior to deltas we are done growing and will shrink to the flying that we can do with an upset pilot group.
01-05-2023, 07:51 AM
#33
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
The tumi ta and American agreement was a stepping stone to the delta TA that I believe needed to happen to spur on negotiations across the industry. If you remember when the tumi came out everyone else was stalled and years away from a contract. UPS, Alaska, Spirit, and Delta all came to the table in short order after Tumis failure in such a spectacular fashion showed how out of touch management and our negotiating committee was. United needs to grow to service our debt and compete.
Two critical points right now are our current contract limits the speed at which we can train pilots and we don't have enough people willing to get abused on reserve as captains. We are structurally at the point where if they don't give us a contract superior to deltas we are done growing and will shrink to the flying that we can do with an upset pilot group.
Two critical points right now are our current contract limits the speed at which we can train pilots and we don't have enough people willing to get abused on reserve as captains. We are structurally at the point where if they don't give us a contract superior to deltas we are done growing and will shrink to the flying that we can do with an upset pilot group.
Bingo
I agree 100 percent
delta plus is a must
01-05-2023, 08:17 AM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2022
Posts: 311
For the more experienced in the group…
Does the company have ways to incentivize the pilot group? Anything from pay, bonuses, rule changing, etc. that legally circumvents the Union?
Not saying this would happen but what IF we can’t get it together in time for summer? Resignations, recalls, donut throwing, 034 hallway middle school drama, terrible polls, another dismal TA, racist/bigot MEC chair…you get the point. That was just under a year. I’m all for volunteering and helping out but time is our enemy at this point.
So back to the question. What can SK do?
Does the company have ways to incentivize the pilot group? Anything from pay, bonuses, rule changing, etc. that legally circumvents the Union?
Not saying this would happen but what IF we can’t get it together in time for summer? Resignations, recalls, donut throwing, 034 hallway middle school drama, terrible polls, another dismal TA, racist/bigot MEC chair…you get the point. That was just under a year. I’m all for volunteering and helping out but time is our enemy at this point.
So back to the question. What can SK do?
01-05-2023, 08:26 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,111
What you aren’t getting is that the “distaste for union politics” is really the underlying concern that what for all appearances, looks like a dysfunctional union, won’t be able to garner the contract we deserve and in the timeline it should happen.
Add to the fact, correct me if I’m wrong, a couple month new hire here will still be off probation at Delta before they are at United, with, some probations taking longer because Captains won’t write after-flight reports on their new hire FO’s.
Add to this, there is enough of the “screw the young guys” feel to some of the CA’s, usually very senior, that comments like, “when I started at Continental I made 25$ an hour” feel less like sharing stories and more like, “you should just shut up and be happy with what we gave you.” Granted, a lot of great CA’s, but just enough of the not so great that it concerns you that issues like ****ty reserve rules, won’t get handled in ways that support the younger folks.
All this to say, that yeah, holding a CJO at Delta, and with them appearing to have a better organized situation changes the calculus enough that a switch over absolutely makes sense. In the end, people are going to make their decision based on what they think is best. Frankly, your surprise about it is kind of surprising.
Add to the fact, correct me if I’m wrong, a couple month new hire here will still be off probation at Delta before they are at United, with, some probations taking longer because Captains won’t write after-flight reports on their new hire FO’s.
Add to this, there is enough of the “screw the young guys” feel to some of the CA’s, usually very senior, that comments like, “when I started at Continental I made 25$ an hour” feel less like sharing stories and more like, “you should just shut up and be happy with what we gave you.” Granted, a lot of great CA’s, but just enough of the not so great that it concerns you that issues like ****ty reserve rules, won’t get handled in ways that support the younger folks.
All this to say, that yeah, holding a CJO at Delta, and with them appearing to have a better organized situation changes the calculus enough that a switch over absolutely makes sense. In the end, people are going to make their decision based on what they think is best. Frankly, your surprise about it is kind of surprising.
01-05-2023, 09:13 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2022
Posts: 148
The company only has itself to blame for the low % of newbie eval forms being submitted. I used to do them 100% of the time new guys. They hand me the form on the last leg of last day, I fill it out and give it back to them, they turn it in to flight ops. Simple. Now, in our effort to save trees, we don’t have those forms anymore. I’m now required to wait until the trip is over, then while on my own time, write the report and submit it. It’s easy to see why the compliance rate has fallen dramatically. Not to mention the fact that it wasn’t the easiest form to access and use the last time I did it.
01-05-2023, 11:46 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 118
The company only has itself to blame for the low % of newbie eval forms being submitted. I used to do them 100% of the time new guys. They hand me the form on the last leg of last day, I fill it out and give it back to them, they turn it in to flight ops. Simple. Now, in our effort to save trees, we don’t have those forms anymore. I’m now required to wait until the trip is over, then while on my own time, write the report and submit it. It’s easy to see why the compliance rate has fallen dramatically. Not to mention the fact that it wasn’t the easiest form to access and use the last time I did it.
01-05-2023, 11:59 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 805
The report doesn't show up for me until after the last leg of the trip in pilot mobile. It also has to be done within 7 days. They could easily get rid of that time window.
01-05-2023, 12:12 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
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