Delta's 18 hour LC
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,360
yeah - FSB is no fun. But some folks like it. They should make it optional, I.e. only with pilot concurrence if they want it.
my issue with reserve is that I have less control on reserve than with a line. I can trade to my hands content with a line. I rarely fly the trips that are assigned out of PBS. Usually something better comes up along the way.
you have zero flexibility on reserve.
my issue with reserve is that I have less control on reserve than with a line. I can trade to my hands content with a line. I rarely fly the trips that are assigned out of PBS. Usually something better comes up along the way.
you have zero flexibility on reserve.
if I were a scheduler, I’d put everyone on SC or FSB every day because…why not? It only helps the scheduler have flexibility. Who gives a crap if the pilots have terrible QOL.
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 1,085
it is just “too cheap” for the company to assign unlimited SC/FSB. An hour of add pay ala Tumi TA is. It gonna cut it either. It’s more like 5 hours that might make a difference.
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 6,733
super helpful. It doesn’t strike me too different than our system.
people say reserve goes senior at DL. Why is that? The only reason I would see it going senior is if people don’t fly. But it seems that they rotate through everyone eventually.
our issue is that everyone is used / abused ins one form of fashion - regardless of staffing levels and need.
people say reserve goes senior at DL. Why is that? The only reason I would see it going senior is if people don’t fly. But it seems that they rotate through everyone eventually.
our issue is that everyone is used / abused ins one form of fashion - regardless of staffing levels and need.
reserve on NBs is junior because you get used. Sure, some senior people bid reserve (pays more in months with pre-posted things like training/vacation/office work because of contractual vagaries), but there’s virtually none of the apocryphal “I’m not senior enough to hold reserve” on anything south of the 330.
#44
So it seems that limiting SC/FSB conversions, having add pay for each assignment, and eliminating Global Reserve will make Reserve better here. It doesn't seem that our reserve would be much different than Delta's should we do this. They don't have FSB, but I think the conversion limit and attractive add pay would make it more tolerable.
The Global Reserve is the biggest problem. I haven't done it being on a NB, but having an even more unpredictable schedule having days off moved around is unacceptable imho.
The Global Reserve is the biggest problem. I haven't done it being on a NB, but having an even more unpredictable schedule having days off moved around is unacceptable imho.
#45
super helpful. It doesn’t strike me too different than our system.
people say reserve goes senior at DL. Why is that? The only reason I would see it going senior is if people don’t fly. But it seems that they rotate through everyone eventually.
our issue is that everyone is used / abused ins one form of fashion - regardless of staffing levels and need.
people say reserve goes senior at DL. Why is that? The only reason I would see it going senior is if people don’t fly. But it seems that they rotate through everyone eventually.
our issue is that everyone is used / abused ins one form of fashion - regardless of staffing levels and need.
If you are even a junior varsity player, you can work a good deal. The pro-league all-stars can get some very impressive results.
While you put your preferences into the main scheduling system, the premium flying notification actually goes out over an automated system that has an app, so you get served up premium opportunities right to your phone, where you can look the offerings over, prioritize, and bid for what you want.
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
So it seems that limiting SC/FSB conversions, having add pay for each assignment, and eliminating Global Reserve will make Reserve better here. It doesn't seem that our reserve would be much different than Delta's should we do this. They don't have FSB, but I think the conversion limit and attractive add pay would make it more tolerable.
The Global Reserve is the biggest problem. I haven't done it being on a NB, but having an even more unpredictable schedule having days off moved around is unacceptable imho.
The Global Reserve is the biggest problem. I haven't done it being on a NB, but having an even more unpredictable schedule having days off moved around is unacceptable imho.
#47
Reserve goes senior at DAL because you can pickup premium trips on your days off that pay over the guarantee and you get your days off back. Towards the end of the month, you run out of places to put your comp off days on your schedule, and they then get saved as payback days which you can use later. You wind up working very little on what were originally on-call days, and instead work mostly premium, which is all over the guarantee.
If you are even a junior varsity player, you can work a good deal. The pro-league all-stars can get some very impressive results.
While you put your preferences into the main scheduling system, the premium flying notification actually goes out over an automated system that has an app, so you get served up premium opportunities right to your phone, where you can look the offerings over, prioritize, and bid for what you want.
If you are even a junior varsity player, you can work a good deal. The pro-league all-stars can get some very impressive results.
While you put your preferences into the main scheduling system, the premium flying notification actually goes out over an automated system that has an app, so you get served up premium opportunities right to your phone, where you can look the offerings over, prioritize, and bid for what you want.
Eliminate FS. Operations can work without it, we do not need it.
Balance all SC assignments, yes! Pay for them all. Why not mandate SC lines since they are possible, and if someone bids for one?
Enhance our reserves to have all the benefits Delta does and a few more, we will all benefit (Delta, AA included). UAL Vacant CA slots will fill.
Enhance our bidding software on a deadline, with a financial consequence benefiting the pilot group if it's not done. It's 2023 next week. Software & programming that can't be done quickly, seriously?
Reserves should be allowed to pickup beyond the day prior 11am run. It creates continuity for the operation without aggravation, open time will go down, schedulers will work far less, it won't usurp seniority if done right. Commuter stress less, etc. 48 hours +/- This benefits all.
Nothing wrong with reserve going senior, that sounds like a solid system the way the Delta folks describe it. Why wouldn't we want that option, for senior folks to choose?
Everything spelled our in our contract, definitively, with no loose ends, and with consequence if it is not done correctly by the company. "We don't think they would do that" better be a laughable thing of the past NC and MEC folks regarding our contract.
I hope the NC is on here reading but, sending in via ALPA submission.
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,501
It’s my understanding that line holder reassignments are much easier over at Delta as well. I wouldn’t expect line holders to give up our reassignment protections to enhance reserve, but add pay for FSB and a later show time for first day reserve would be a fairly easy sell. Global reserve is different in that you can’t break trips up as easy. A 3 day MUC trip is what it is and needs coverage.
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 37
Thank you Delta peeps for weighing in. Very informative info.
Eliminate FS. Operations can work without it, we do not need it.
Balance all SC assignments, yes! Pay for them all. Why not mandate SC lines since they are possible, and if someone bids for one?
Enhance our reserves to have all the benefits Delta does and a few more, we will all benefit (Delta, AA included). UAL Vacant CA slots will fill.
Enhance our bidding software on a deadline, with a financial consequence benefiting the pilot group if it's not done. It's 2023 next week. Software & programming that can't be done quickly, seriously?
Reserves should be allowed to pickup beyond the day prior 11am run. It creates continuity for the operation without aggravation, open time will go down, schedulers will work far less, it won't usurp seniority if done right. Commuter stress less, etc. 48 hours +/- This benefits all.
Nothing wrong with reserve going senior, that sounds like a solid system the way the Delta folks describe it. Why wouldn't we want that option, for senior folks to choose?
Everything spelled our in our contract, definitively, with no loose ends, and with consequence if it is not done correctly by the company. "We don't think they would do that" better be a laughable thing of the past NC and MEC folks regarding our contract.
I hope the NC is on here reading but, sending in via ALPA submission.
Eliminate FS. Operations can work without it, we do not need it.
Balance all SC assignments, yes! Pay for them all. Why not mandate SC lines since they are possible, and if someone bids for one?
Enhance our reserves to have all the benefits Delta does and a few more, we will all benefit (Delta, AA included). UAL Vacant CA slots will fill.
Enhance our bidding software on a deadline, with a financial consequence benefiting the pilot group if it's not done. It's 2023 next week. Software & programming that can't be done quickly, seriously?
Reserves should be allowed to pickup beyond the day prior 11am run. It creates continuity for the operation without aggravation, open time will go down, schedulers will work far less, it won't usurp seniority if done right. Commuter stress less, etc. 48 hours +/- This benefits all.
Nothing wrong with reserve going senior, that sounds like a solid system the way the Delta folks describe it. Why wouldn't we want that option, for senior folks to choose?
Everything spelled our in our contract, definitively, with no loose ends, and with consequence if it is not done correctly by the company. "We don't think they would do that" better be a laughable thing of the past NC and MEC folks regarding our contract.
I hope the NC is on here reading but, sending in via ALPA submission.
It's all just a matter of how much negotiating capital you want to spend on reserve(minority of pilots) and take away from line holders (majority of pilots). For a perspective, in the past we had floater reserve lines, FSB lines and all reserve assignments at UAL were short call, 3 hours to report and 4 hours to departure. No such thing as long call. And that was before cell phones! We used beepers. But that was okay because we were hearty folk, we walked uphill both ways to and from the airport.
Last edited by Oly2016; 12-23-2022 at 11:15 AM. Reason: grammar
#50
It's all just a matter of how much negotiating capital you want to spend on reserve(minority of pilots) and take away from line holders (majority of pilots). For a perspective, in the past we had floater reserve lines, FSB lines and all reserve assignments at UAL were short call, 3 hours to report and 4 hours to departure. No such thing as long call. And that was before cell phones! We used beepers. But that was okay because we were hearty folk, we walked uphill both ways to and from the airport.
Delta guy here, there's no reason you guys shouldn't be able to get a reasonable facsimile of our RES rules.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post