Kirby “DAL Pilot contract will set template”
12-06-2022, 06:54 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 383
Motch (not calling you out just read your post and sparked my thoughts) and others
survey and “strong” worded email from Mike Hamilton is just a way to run out the clock for delta to vote in the contract (if they do). They need a reason to appear like they are formulating a new plan and going to bat for us….Then like magic the close out process will begin when delta’s vote closes. 1% more money then DAL and then American will close just before summer at the same time we close our deal and it will be 1% more than us….and then delta will snap up.
Also like most things management has done the past few months is due to the pilot shortage which is our leverage. MCO and LAS base, 5% pay rate hike, publicly claiming we will match delta…..it’s all about keeping pilots applying and coming here.
survey and “strong” worded email from Mike Hamilton is just a way to run out the clock for delta to vote in the contract (if they do). They need a reason to appear like they are formulating a new plan and going to bat for us….Then like magic the close out process will begin when delta’s vote closes. 1% more money then DAL and then American will close just before summer at the same time we close our deal and it will be 1% more than us….and then delta will snap up.
Also like most things management has done the past few months is due to the pilot shortage which is our leverage. MCO and LAS base, 5% pay rate hike, publicly claiming we will match delta…..it’s all about keeping pilots applying and coming here.
12-06-2022, 07:26 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,351
Sure, we certainly matter enough, but that’s not what’s happening. Prices go up 20%. Then Delta gets an 18% raise. And I’m to believe the latter caused the former? GMAFB. We’re chasing inflation, not causing it.
12-06-2022, 07:32 AM
#15
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
82sr..
I hear what you're saying but there also has to come a time where we say- enough is enough with the surveys. Not that I'm anti survey, but how often do you need to hear that we need-
*Pay to make up for the cost of Inflation PLUS what was lost at both Legacies
* Reserve Rules that make being on Reserve "livable". Not the worst RR's in the Industry, when we are suppose to be a "Leader"
*Lineholder rules that enhance what we do.. ie, 5:20 pay per day, Holiday Pay, reassignment and late pay.
*Retirement fixes to make up for what was lost from many, and to make this Profession attractable to the next Generation
*Sick Leave that is (again) Industry Leading.. not one where it's impossible for a junior/newhire to ever get out of the hole if they go on LTD early on.
*LTD which needs to pay out more, add a BFund amount and happen sooner- for when EVERYONE will (unfortunately) go on it for a short time.
*Retro that takes into consideration what we endured by letting the company slow roll us for 4 years!
* and other items...
Delta seems to have set a new bar. Great for them and for us all. But (and I know this will come out cold and taken the wrong way..) I don't care to give up my Contract just so the company can "attract" more pilots. Part of being a Union is honoring Seniority. I understand we kinda threw that out the window a few years back, but it doesn't change the point that we SHOULD try to honor it.
NewHire pilots have choices today that most of us never had, or could ever dream of. Good for them.
But it's important to not only tell any potential Newhire the good & great things here at United, but also the dirty things.
Till then-
FS, FP & FtC
Always
Motch
I hear what you're saying but there also has to come a time where we say- enough is enough with the surveys. Not that I'm anti survey, but how often do you need to hear that we need-
*Pay to make up for the cost of Inflation PLUS what was lost at both Legacies
* Reserve Rules that make being on Reserve "livable". Not the worst RR's in the Industry, when we are suppose to be a "Leader"
*Lineholder rules that enhance what we do.. ie, 5:20 pay per day, Holiday Pay, reassignment and late pay.
*Retirement fixes to make up for what was lost from many, and to make this Profession attractable to the next Generation
*Sick Leave that is (again) Industry Leading.. not one where it's impossible for a junior/newhire to ever get out of the hole if they go on LTD early on.
*LTD which needs to pay out more, add a BFund amount and happen sooner- for when EVERYONE will (unfortunately) go on it for a short time.
*Retro that takes into consideration what we endured by letting the company slow roll us for 4 years!
* and other items...
Delta seems to have set a new bar. Great for them and for us all. But (and I know this will come out cold and taken the wrong way..) I don't care to give up my Contract just so the company can "attract" more pilots. Part of being a Union is honoring Seniority. I understand we kinda threw that out the window a few years back, but it doesn't change the point that we SHOULD try to honor it.
NewHire pilots have choices today that most of us never had, or could ever dream of. Good for them.
But it's important to not only tell any potential Newhire the good & great things here at United, but also the dirty things.
Till then-
FS, FP & FtC
Always
Motch
12-06-2022, 07:38 AM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
I'd think that IF the Union wants another survey- they MAY have to take the Delta AIP or, wait till it becomes a TA- and then post how that would compare to our current UPA.
Obviously, Pay Rates are Easy..
But it's the work rules where it gets interesting.
End of the Day, I think we all need to make more.. but is it doing more work, the same work or working more efficiently?
We all have a Vote
Motch
Obviously, Pay Rates are Easy..
But it's the work rules where it gets interesting.
End of the Day, I think we all need to make more.. but is it doing more work, the same work or working more efficiently?
We all have a Vote
Motch
12-06-2022, 08:39 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 122
How does the same MC and same NC except for 1 retread replacement get to be the ones who try to fix this?
If many reps who have a body of doing good work got fired over this mess, why haven’t the ones who are responsible for it?
Id be less upset about another damn survey if the ones trying to put out the fire weren’t the ones who lit it.
If many reps who have a body of doing good work got fired over this mess, why haven’t the ones who are responsible for it?
Id be less upset about another damn survey if the ones trying to put out the fire weren’t the ones who lit it.
12-06-2022, 10:00 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
He's a CEO/Wannabe Politician/Gambler.
He knows his audience and knows what to say, and when to say it.
Watch what he says tomorrow.. then watch what he says in Jan (at the Quarter and Yearly result presentation).
IF this AIP passes Delta MEC and IF the pilots vote this in.. we are looking at Feb'23 when our union and management team had better get their act together.
It's probably a 2-3 month process so if they don't have something solid, in writing - to offer this pilot group by end of March/beginning of April.. well, good luck with Summer '23.
Not against a survey. But.. as the past two have shown- if you don't have legit questions, the survey is a waste of time.
I would imagine many pilots who were here in 2018 did the survey back then. The union knows what REALLY needs to be fixed, what needs to be fixed and what can basically stay the same.
Lets hope that we see an ILC23 in the Spring and we go into Summer '23 as a Unified Pilot Group and Company, with a fair and honest UPA that recognizes what we bring to this Airline.
If not, oh well...
FS, FP & FtC
Always
Motch
He knows his audience and knows what to say, and when to say it.
Watch what he says tomorrow.. then watch what he says in Jan (at the Quarter and Yearly result presentation).
IF this AIP passes Delta MEC and IF the pilots vote this in.. we are looking at Feb'23 when our union and management team had better get their act together.
It's probably a 2-3 month process so if they don't have something solid, in writing - to offer this pilot group by end of March/beginning of April.. well, good luck with Summer '23.
Not against a survey. But.. as the past two have shown- if you don't have legit questions, the survey is a waste of time.
I would imagine many pilots who were here in 2018 did the survey back then. The union knows what REALLY needs to be fixed, what needs to be fixed and what can basically stay the same.
Lets hope that we see an ILC23 in the Spring and we go into Summer '23 as a Unified Pilot Group and Company, with a fair and honest UPA that recognizes what we bring to this Airline.
If not, oh well...
FS, FP & FtC
Always
Motch
Neg committee must go
Period
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