Huge G line changes (especially 737 EWR/DCA)
11-13-2022, 08:44 PM
#41
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Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
One month isn't going to make anyone flinch here at United. They would have to continue this tactic for 12-18 months to change anyone's mind. They are up to no good.
I predict premium pay will continue, and now that the G-line is higher, there will be less lineholders to pick it up. The reserves will bow out and we are going to have a disaster of cancellations over Christmas. Maybe the plan is to "blame" the pilots for their own mismanagement...
I think this next vacancy will still have record numbers of unfilled CA vacancies. This tactic by the scheduling planners is literally stupid and I honestly think it will have the opposite affect.
11-14-2022, 12:34 PM
#44
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Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
Well, they won't be picking up extra time trying to break guarantee is my guess.
If you have a large amount of reserves doing this, it will get chaotic. A lot of pilots out of position trying to move reserves around the system, not to mention the toll it will take on scheduling for reassignments, which will cause an increase in cancellations, which means more pilots that time out and out of position.
If they are forced into doing this, I'm guessing this will be very fatiguing.
I mean, why wouldn't management do away with lineholders altogether and just put us all on reserve?
Would that be a status quo violation? What would it take for the union to fight this garbage?
If you have a large amount of reserves doing this, it will get chaotic. A lot of pilots out of position trying to move reserves around the system, not to mention the toll it will take on scheduling for reassignments, which will cause an increase in cancellations, which means more pilots that time out and out of position.
If they are forced into doing this, I'm guessing this will be very fatiguing.
I mean, why wouldn't management do away with lineholders altogether and just put us all on reserve?
Would that be a status quo violation? What would it take for the union to fight this garbage?
The company doesn’t care if reserves pick up or not. Reserve pilots are on the hook for any contractually compliant assignment. If a widget doesn’t pick a trip up they will simply assign it to the next one in line. Picking up is beneficial to individuals since it can allow them to potentially make a little more or just stay out of a crash pad or hotel for a few days. As far as the company is concerned, a universal part number gets plugged in and the machine chugs on along.
Regarding putting us all on reserve, perhaps you should read section 8 of the UPA. After satisfying line construction values they can have lots of widgets on the shelf ready to plug in. We are producing them as fast as we can in an effort to get ahead of deliveries. Until new aircraft start rolling in, expect reserve levels to be on the fat side, especially in the right seat since storage doesn’t cost as much.
11-14-2022, 01:56 PM
#45
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,501
Well, they won't be picking up extra time trying to break guarantee is my guess.
If you have a large amount of reserves doing this, it will get chaotic. A lot of pilots out of position trying to move reserves around the system, not to mention the toll it will take on scheduling for reassignments, which will cause an increase in cancellations, which means more pilots that time out and out of position.
If they are forced into doing this, I'm guessing this will be very fatiguing.
I mean, why wouldn't management do away with lineholders altogether and just put us all on reserve?
Would that be a status quo violation? What would it take for the union to fight this garbage?
If you have a large amount of reserves doing this, it will get chaotic. A lot of pilots out of position trying to move reserves around the system, not to mention the toll it will take on scheduling for reassignments, which will cause an increase in cancellations, which means more pilots that time out and out of position.
If they are forced into doing this, I'm guessing this will be very fatiguing.
I mean, why wouldn't management do away with lineholders altogether and just put us all on reserve?
Would that be a status quo violation? What would it take for the union to fight this garbage?
Doesn't sound like you know how reserves work.
11-14-2022, 03:54 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tBvAxSx0nAM
The company doesn’t care if reserves pick up or not. Reserve pilots are on the hook for any contractually compliant assignment. If a widget doesn’t pick a trip up they will simply assign it to the next one in line. Picking up is beneficial to individuals since it can allow them to potentially make a little more or just stay out of a crash pad or hotel for a few days. As far as the company is concerned, a universal part number gets plugged in and the machine chugs on along.
Regarding putting us all on reserve, perhaps you should read section 8 of the UPA. After satisfying line construction values they can have lots of widgets on the shelf ready to plug in. We are producing them as fast as we can in an effort to get ahead of deliveries. Until new aircraft start rolling in, expect reserve levels to be on the fat side, especially in the right seat since storage doesn’t cost as much.
The company doesn’t care if reserves pick up or not. Reserve pilots are on the hook for any contractually compliant assignment. If a widget doesn’t pick a trip up they will simply assign it to the next one in line. Picking up is beneficial to individuals since it can allow them to potentially make a little more or just stay out of a crash pad or hotel for a few days. As far as the company is concerned, a universal part number gets plugged in and the machine chugs on along.
Regarding putting us all on reserve, perhaps you should read section 8 of the UPA. After satisfying line construction values they can have lots of widgets on the shelf ready to plug in. We are producing them as fast as we can in an effort to get ahead of deliveries. Until new aircraft start rolling in, expect reserve levels to be on the fat side, especially in the right seat since storage doesn’t cost as much.
Based on what you are saying, it sounds like we would have "excess" reserves do to over-hiring. If this is the case, why the complaining? Likely anyone on reserve will be used much less than guarantee.
I was under the impression that the complaint was due to them using reserves more often to prevent OT.
If this was the case, I was saying that pilots on reserve would probably not aggressive pickup due to 5-B-2-C(3) which would max out the ability of scheduling to use them over 90 hrs.
If a reserve pilot aggressively pick ups flying, then they can be used over 90 hrs under this provision.
This is the reason why the company would "care" if pilots aggressively picked up OT.
11-14-2022, 04:28 PM
#47
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Joined APC: May 2010
Position: Awa(k3rE3
Posts: 213
Well, they won't be picking up extra time trying to break guarantee is my guess.
If you have a large amount of reserves doing this, it will get chaotic. A lot of pilots out of position trying to move reserves around the system, not to mention the toll it will take on scheduling for reassignments, which will cause an increase in cancellations, which means more pilots that time out and out of position.
If they are forced into doing this, I'm guessing this will be very fatiguing.
I mean, why wouldn't management do away with lineholders altogether and just put us all on reserve?
Would that be a status quo violation? What would it take for the union to fight this garbage?
If you have a large amount of reserves doing this, it will get chaotic. A lot of pilots out of position trying to move reserves around the system, not to mention the toll it will take on scheduling for reassignments, which will cause an increase in cancellations, which means more pilots that time out and out of position.
If they are forced into doing this, I'm guessing this will be very fatiguing.
I mean, why wouldn't management do away with lineholders altogether and just put us all on reserve?
Would that be a status quo violation? What would it take for the union to fight this garbage?
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11-14-2022, 05:34 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: EMB145
Posts: 772
Maybe… lots of factors at play
- FO manning historically healthier than CA manning. The old manpower ways allowed senior FOs to fly low credit lines and have a lot of ability to pick up premium trips. All that premium pay dissuaded senior FOs from upgrading. That’s no longer the case.
- CA scheduling typically allowed senior CAs to do the same, although CA manning is always more constrained compared to the FOs. Now, a lot of senior CAs will be forced to fly their 85 hour lines instead of 70-75 hr lines while junior CAs continue to fly 90 hour lines.
- not all bases are equal. We’ve had a ton of unfilled CA vacancies in SFO, EWR, LAX, and even IAD, ORD, DEN. This past vacancy bid added a lot of IAH captains but to my knowledge, there’s no additional flying commensurate with all those new IAH CAs. Result: IAH may be used as a domestic reserve pool to cover system shortages on the coasts.
Bottom line: the new system will be awarding a lot more pilots 85-90 hour lines in order to maximize the number of pilots on reserve. Less premium pay across the board. So if you could be an FO flying an 85-90 hour line, why not just upgrade and be a CA flying the same crappy 85-90 hour line? Those pilots who chased the pay are now more likely to upgrade. Those who value seniority will stay put.
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- FO manning historically healthier than CA manning. The old manpower ways allowed senior FOs to fly low credit lines and have a lot of ability to pick up premium trips. All that premium pay dissuaded senior FOs from upgrading. That’s no longer the case.
- CA scheduling typically allowed senior CAs to do the same, although CA manning is always more constrained compared to the FOs. Now, a lot of senior CAs will be forced to fly their 85 hour lines instead of 70-75 hr lines while junior CAs continue to fly 90 hour lines.
- not all bases are equal. We’ve had a ton of unfilled CA vacancies in SFO, EWR, LAX, and even IAD, ORD, DEN. This past vacancy bid added a lot of IAH captains but to my knowledge, there’s no additional flying commensurate with all those new IAH CAs. Result: IAH may be used as a domestic reserve pool to cover system shortages on the coasts.
Bottom line: the new system will be awarding a lot more pilots 85-90 hour lines in order to maximize the number of pilots on reserve. Less premium pay across the board. So if you could be an FO flying an 85-90 hour line, why not just upgrade and be a CA flying the same crappy 85-90 hour line? Those pilots who chased the pay are now more likely to upgrade. Those who value seniority will stay put.
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