UALinIAH

I don’t think it would catch that much flack in today’s environment. Anyone who can vote is off probation and can hold CA. The ones who may be opposed are the super senior WB FOs that are just waiting until they can hold a line to jump the trash can. Even those know if they wanted to chase the $$$ the could.

horrido27

Interesting dilemma we find ourselves in today.
I have always believed that "Reserve" is a choice. Maybe not 100%, (maybe around 70-80% your doing) but still.. a Choice when it comes to bidding Upgrade.

SHOULD we fix a company made problem? Keep in mind, it IS a company made problem. They have a few outs- Award Short Call lines, don't just put anyone and everyone on SC/FSB at their liking.. be open and transparent.

IF we make Reserve better (which, it does need some fixing) won't the result be more mid level pilots bidding into the Left seat and thereby killing the 2 year (or less!) Upgrades!?

We should always be aware of the problems that come with a new fix. Many of us want the RJ's gone. We want a 80-110 seater on property. (A220's/E195e2's) but with that comes RJ Style flying
Are you ready for 3,4 or even 5 legs a day.. for 3, 4 or 5 days? Don't believe for a second they won't build those sort of 5 days with maybe a long sit somewhere.. and worth 25-26 hours. Yet, if we have 5:20 a day pay- that 5 day now turns into a 26:40 hour trip. It's something and it all adds up. But this is the result of taking back RJ flying to mainline (WHICH I TOTALLY Support) yet still having to do RJ style flying.

As Hedley stated- If we have already divided the pilot group into thirds once, what is to prevent something similar (but different!) from happening again. With the amount of hiring we are doing, and this push to be a Level 1 (or 4~) Professional.. and that Captains needing to be mentors.. do we look at a slight widening of the split between Capt and FO pay? Right now its at about 31% less for an FO than a Captain. Which way should and will it go?

Great Discussion
Always
Motch

Hedley

I don’t think that better reserve rules alone will fix the problem. It will have to be some type of combination of better work rules and financial incentives. We’re not trying to fill just a few slots. They’re planning a massive expansion and need to cast a wide net. They need to figure something out. Unfilled captain vacancies are now in DEN and ORD, as well as the coastal bases. The ball is in their court now, so they need to decide if it is better to provide incentives for people to staff their expansion plans, or to just slow roll the expansion. I went through TK recently and the clock is ticking. I spent 3 days in the building and half of my instructors have captain bids already awarded and plan on going back to the line if a deal isn’t reached soon.

horrido27

I hear ya...
Crazy Times.
But what many junior pilots don't understand is that there is a reason why we are a Union and Seniority matters. 2 year upgrades and 2 year Instructors is not normal.

What we should have is a reserve system that pays a bit more (ie- NOT 4:03:20 a day) with a few more days off and dedicated Long Call AND Short Call lines. But what we cant do it erode from the top to make the bottom feel happy.
IF we had a viable Reserve system, you would probably see less unfilled Captain Slots. It seems our Reserve system is one of the worst out there. But it's just one of a few things that need to be fixed.
Fixing Reserve while not really touching LTD, SL, Min Pay per Day.. doesn't cut it in my book and others I have talked to.

For the record, I just upgraded to the Left seat of the B756. HARD Reserve (LOL).. but I'm local and I knew what I was getting myself into.
We operate an interesting airline and pilot group. Ya got the-
Narrow body vs. WB/International/Long Haul group
Lineholders vs. Reserve
Locals vs. Commuters
Legacy United vs. Legacy Continental
And lastly-
Post Mergers vs. Legacy.

But one thing that someone said to me months ago and holds true-
Are you looking at it and voting from where you are now? Or from where you will be at the end of this agreement and where you expect to be when you retire.. ie as a WB Capt?

Fun Times~
Always
Motch

Hedley

I frequently fly with new hires and they just wish that they could vote no on TA1. I’m not as doom and gloom as many are, I’m actually cautiously optimistic. TA1 is going to go down in flames on November 1, and unless the company suddenly agrees to a contract with significant financial and QOL improvements for the pilots, I think that most want to wait for the right deal. My only fear is our current MEC tries another rushed job to save face after the Tumi debacle. Time will tell, but for right now I think that it is fairly unanimous that this group isn’t going to take concessions with sub-inflationary financial sprinkles.

EwrRocks

I agree that better reserve rules and $ will help some, yet this is also a larger macro problem that is hard to solve. This next generation of pilots has learned from previous pilots, along with bigger societal changes.

As far as the industry is concerned this generation of pilots have seen and learned from 9/11, 2008 financial meltdown, age 65 and now Covid. They have seen first hand on how external events to which they have no control over can set you back or destroy your career. They have herd from everyone since they started their career to live within your means, live your life on FO NB pay. Don’t buy Captain house, car or boat. Don’t chase seats, bases and $. Under current contact they almost all can live a nice life on NB FO, and keep for themselves all the flexibility to make more and keep all the days off they want and need.

As for societal changes people are getting married and having kids much later, if at all. The cost of everything, along with a larger calling to live a full life based on living not material things. So many of the newer pilots I’m meeting are in the 30-35 year range are not married, or if they at don’t have kids. Another factor is those who are married largely have spouses that work, some in really good paying jobs.

Bottom line, this new generation of pilots have learned from the industry failures and pilot mistakes. They value their own time, time with family and experiences way more then $. I have no idea how the fix the problem, just don’t see it changing under current system.

ninerdriver

Quoting above because that word is a problem (not picking on you, Motch).

TA1 is an us pilots vs. them pilots agreement. Take work rules and scope from them pilots, give money to us pilots, hopefully get 51% of us pilots to vote yes. Fortunately, the MEC blew that one very badly.

TA2 is rolling in the same direction. We got your 1000 reserve start back! FTIs won't teach sims after all! They're trying to change enough them pilots into us pilots to get to that 51%.

That's company-think, not the way a successful union works. As long as a good chunk of the pilot group views contract negotiations as us pilots vs. them pilots, this union will never have a strong backbone. The them pilots will always be skeptical, even if the them pilots become us pilots down the road. If enough pilots have been them pilots at one point, then the union becomes toothless, because not enough pilots will believe in it.

The next UAL MEC will be in an amazing position to fix that. The next TA is a sizable rallying point around which the MEC could grow goodwill from across the pilot group, provided that it approaches the TA correctly. Every pilot needs to see some benefit. Will the next MEC do it? I don't know, but that's the recipe to success.

Edit: okay, done editing this now.

TenaciousB

What’s stopping us from insisting on reserve rules that are as good as those at Delta? That should be the starting point. Of course it’s one of many things, but honestly as a newbie I’m generally curious why suggestions are so incremental vs. matching what one of our main competitors already offers.

Hedley

Reserve rules tend turn into a back burner issue when it’s time to vote. Most of the eligible pilots are not on reserve. They would like to see improvements for those who are, but not at the expense of those who aren’t. It’s not a good answer, but it’s how things usually turn out, and probably will again. Obviously an oversimplification, but if we were given the choice between a much higher rate and better scheduling rules vs industry leading reserve rules, those who aren’t on reserve would carry the vote. We’d all like to have it all, but if it comes down to picking priorities, reserve rules tend to get pushed back.

01110011

Maybe, but to me reserve rules almost go hand in hand with pay- if you aren’t upgrading because reserve sucks, that hits your wallet.