United Instructor's pay and benefits
10-06-2022, 05:50 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 403
I think you are right, but for clarity I want to make sure you didn’t mean 9th year Captain, since the
pay rate is currently “capped” at 9 year WB FO pay.
If TA1 section doesn’t change in revision 2, that stands at 12 year Airbus blended rate.
That could obviously change though if the section goes thru a massive rewrite.
pay rate is currently “capped” at 9 year WB FO pay.
If TA1 section doesn’t change in revision 2, that stands at 12 year Airbus blended rate.
That could obviously change though if the section goes thru a massive rewrite.
10-06-2022, 06:46 PM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2013
Posts: 545
Current LTD stinks as compared to DAL. Very modest increases in TA-1 (on hold) still well below what DAL negotiated 6 years ago.
I don’t expect to see DAL type LTD to be in TA2 (which the UAL MEC is in a lightning speed track to get by Nov 1).
If the MEC and or pilot group votes down TA2 with a few of the current recalls being successful. It’s possible in TA3.
Below is from C12 ORD blast mail last July.
Understanding LTD
When the Con statement against the TA was written, it was not possible to detail every inadequate provision.
While the TA makes improvements to our existing, rather poor Long Term Disability (LTD) benefits, those improvements continue to fall well below the gold standard, Delta LTD.
Many pilots do not understand the importance of LTD until the day comes when they suddenly find themselves out on LTD. Additionally, most pilots who go out on LTD do so during their highest paid, most important, retirement savings years.
Delta pilots on LTD have no maximum benefit cap. They get a true 50% of their Final Average Earnings rather than a capped amount. Under our TA, most of our pilots LTD dollars are fixed at a cap, and not truly 50% of 1026 hours/85.5 hours per month due to being capped.
Delta pilots on disability immediately receive a double Defined Contribution of 32% of their LTD benefit, such that they are made whole for their retirement contributions. Delta’s LTD is paid at 50% of their Final Average Earnings but their retirement calculation is based on 100% of their Final Average Earnings. Sixteen percent of all of the pre-LTD income is the same number as 32% of half of the pre-LTD income. By contrast, our TA continues to impose a low maximum benefit cap, much less than a pilot would be making if they were not out on LTD, even with the tax advantage. While our TA would, after a 36 month waiting period, provide an extra 16% to the benefit cap, this money would not go into our retirement plan to grow tax deferred. Instead it’s an extra 16% added to the LTD cap, to help make up for lost defined contributions while on LTD, which further decreases our tax free LTD treatment overall as compared to Delta’s taxable LTD plan. Currently a large percentage of pilots would yield less than a true 16% of the 50% (compared to Delta's 32% of the 50%), due to the LTD cap being less than 50% of their earnings.
Essentially all DAL pilots on day one of LTD receive full pre-LTD defined contribution (100% of their defined contributions from their Final Average Earnings) while on LTD, where our pilots under our TA get nothing for 36 months and then only 50% of the cap, not tax deferred. For simple math, on a pre-LTD income of $100,000, and an LTD of $50,000, at Delta a pilot would get $16,000 in defined contribution to their retirement. Under our TA, a United pilot would receive $8000, not tax-deferred. As the numbers rise, our capped LTD results in a greater disparity and lower percentage, of less than our TA’s 16% compared to Delta's 32%.
Additionally, Delta pays 100% of LTD plan premiums. This obviously benefits every single active Delta pilot. The fact that Delta pays the entire LTD premium is also beneficial for pilots who never go on LTD during their career in that they do not ever have premiums withheld for a benefit not used. While Delta LTD benefits are taxable and have an income offset for the first 36 months that the pilot is on disability, the lack of fixed and low max benefit caps, along with their double, 32%, immediate defined benefit retirement contributions, more than make up for the taxation.
The takeaway is Delta is getting a bigger gross benefit and a full 16% on their Final Average Earnings pre-LTD where our TA provides 16% on only half of 85.5 hours, and capped to less for most pilots.
Delta also has pilot short term disability and pilot mutual aid programs, which replace all of their disabled pilots’ income to 90% of their Final Average Earnings during shorter term disabilities. Finally, their sick leave is based upon years of service and resets each year.
A solution to get to a yearly reset system, along with LTD benefits and other benefits, are worthy of your opinion in the survey, if desired.
I don’t expect to see DAL type LTD to be in TA2 (which the UAL MEC is in a lightning speed track to get by Nov 1).
If the MEC and or pilot group votes down TA2 with a few of the current recalls being successful. It’s possible in TA3.
Below is from C12 ORD blast mail last July.
Understanding LTD
When the Con statement against the TA was written, it was not possible to detail every inadequate provision.
While the TA makes improvements to our existing, rather poor Long Term Disability (LTD) benefits, those improvements continue to fall well below the gold standard, Delta LTD.
Many pilots do not understand the importance of LTD until the day comes when they suddenly find themselves out on LTD. Additionally, most pilots who go out on LTD do so during their highest paid, most important, retirement savings years.
Delta pilots on LTD have no maximum benefit cap. They get a true 50% of their Final Average Earnings rather than a capped amount. Under our TA, most of our pilots LTD dollars are fixed at a cap, and not truly 50% of 1026 hours/85.5 hours per month due to being capped.
Delta pilots on disability immediately receive a double Defined Contribution of 32% of their LTD benefit, such that they are made whole for their retirement contributions. Delta’s LTD is paid at 50% of their Final Average Earnings but their retirement calculation is based on 100% of their Final Average Earnings. Sixteen percent of all of the pre-LTD income is the same number as 32% of half of the pre-LTD income. By contrast, our TA continues to impose a low maximum benefit cap, much less than a pilot would be making if they were not out on LTD, even with the tax advantage. While our TA would, after a 36 month waiting period, provide an extra 16% to the benefit cap, this money would not go into our retirement plan to grow tax deferred. Instead it’s an extra 16% added to the LTD cap, to help make up for lost defined contributions while on LTD, which further decreases our tax free LTD treatment overall as compared to Delta’s taxable LTD plan. Currently a large percentage of pilots would yield less than a true 16% of the 50% (compared to Delta's 32% of the 50%), due to the LTD cap being less than 50% of their earnings.
Essentially all DAL pilots on day one of LTD receive full pre-LTD defined contribution (100% of their defined contributions from their Final Average Earnings) while on LTD, where our pilots under our TA get nothing for 36 months and then only 50% of the cap, not tax deferred. For simple math, on a pre-LTD income of $100,000, and an LTD of $50,000, at Delta a pilot would get $16,000 in defined contribution to their retirement. Under our TA, a United pilot would receive $8000, not tax-deferred. As the numbers rise, our capped LTD results in a greater disparity and lower percentage, of less than our TA’s 16% compared to Delta's 32%.
Additionally, Delta pays 100% of LTD plan premiums. This obviously benefits every single active Delta pilot. The fact that Delta pays the entire LTD premium is also beneficial for pilots who never go on LTD during their career in that they do not ever have premiums withheld for a benefit not used. While Delta LTD benefits are taxable and have an income offset for the first 36 months that the pilot is on disability, the lack of fixed and low max benefit caps, along with their double, 32%, immediate defined benefit retirement contributions, more than make up for the taxation.
The takeaway is Delta is getting a bigger gross benefit and a full 16% on their Final Average Earnings pre-LTD where our TA provides 16% on only half of 85.5 hours, and capped to less for most pilots.
Delta also has pilot short term disability and pilot mutual aid programs, which replace all of their disabled pilots’ income to 90% of their Final Average Earnings during shorter term disabilities. Finally, their sick leave is based upon years of service and resets each year.
A solution to get to a yearly reset system, along with LTD benefits and other benefits, are worthy of your opinion in the survey, if desired.
10-07-2022, 04:22 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2017
Posts: 1,360
as far as leaving….I’m not sure if there’s any sort of commitment. I have known some people who’ve gone back to the line after a year.
10-07-2022, 04:42 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 376
Job share IEs are half and half - but right now that job is only open to "Evaluators" and not "Instructors". The job share provision was being expanded in Sec 23 of the Tumi TA and allowed 20% of each fleet to have Job Share Instructors that would effectively fly the line 6 months of the year and instruct the other 6. There were also Sec 23 TA provisions that would allow Instructors to fly as Captains if they can hold a bid in that seat. Currently all instructors are FO's and stuck on the FO pay scale - which is why they are/were leaving TK like rats leaving a sinking ship. Every single instructor can hold CA somewhere and many are now senior enough to be line holders which means they have the potential to get more time off and more pay on the line than they do at TK - particularly if they are commuting.
10-07-2022, 07:45 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 753
12-08-2022, 08:06 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2021
Posts: 204
Question about initial instructor training pay / scheduling:
Just viewed PBS for Jan and I have 10 days of TRN, 0 seniority in base. Will I fall under training pay for the month? Like the 3ish hours per day, but only for 10 days of work? Can I pick up any flying on the days prior or even after? Gonna be a tight month if that’s all I can get!
Just viewed PBS for Jan and I have 10 days of TRN, 0 seniority in base. Will I fall under training pay for the month? Like the 3ish hours per day, but only for 10 days of work? Can I pick up any flying on the days prior or even after? Gonna be a tight month if that’s all I can get!
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