Merle Haggard

The problem with this philosophy is that "add" money is not guaranteed. They use it when THEY need it, and you don't see it when they don't. It's another step toward being the seasonal employee that they really want. The proposal ultimately had the potential to be bad for both the QOL and money camps.

UALinIAH

I lean more in the QOL camp. I was expecting gains in reserve and LH QOWL above all. I was at least expecting to keep up with inflation in pay and willing to just take a 20% increase on DOS plus annual increases in order to get QOL gains they’ve been talking about since we lost them in bankruptcy. Notice I didn’t say raise because 20% isn’t a pay raise, that’s just getting us to where we were in 2019 inflation adjusted. I was floored when the Tumi TA came out with a 9% increase at year 3 (5% was already bought and paid for previously and now looks to be coming in 2 more quarters). I’m so ****ed off now that it will probably take even more to vote yes. More like 25% DOS with positive changes to reserve, more painful for the company to reassign for LHers, Training, vacation, big SL improvements and B/C fund for everything including profit sharing (which should be back next year) and vacation buyback as minimums. Oh and full retro as our MEC policy manual mandates. But that’s just me.

serce

But the regionals pay better have better reserve rules.

Hedley

When we can’t fill captain vacancies at our current training capacity, it makes one wonder how bad it’s going to be when the new sim building is up and running. I guess Kirby can sign a contract that encourages people to staff instructor/LCA slots and for line pilots to seek out upgrade opportunities, or he can throttle back his expansion. The ball is in his court.

hummingbear

One of the big problems with TUMI was not necessarily that it focused on pay, but that in doing so it was actually regressive on QOL. So it didn’t feel like more money as much as it did a token payment for stripping our existing labor protections.

To your question about where most lie on the QOL/pay spectrum, I’ve rarely met a pilot who didn’t claim he was QOL all the way, yet somehow those PPU trips don’t ever stay on the shelf for long. In practice, most guys seem to be going to work when money’s on the table. Maybe I’m a cynic- I think as a group our public statements tend to downplay the reality that money is an effective motivator for most of us.

One of the things that makes QOL changes tricky in negotiations is that not everyone’s definition of QOL is the same. As an example, if you want protections from being overscheduled, some of what you would propose may interfere with my desire for greater schedule flexibility. My desire for comfortable trip construction may produce less efficient schedules which mean more time away from home for you; and so on. I wouldn’t necessarily vote against something that was primarily QOL focused- but it would have to meet my definition of “quality”, which may not agree with yours. I think there are some broad improvements that have popular appeal, but as you get more esoteric, conflicting interests start to arise.

I’m for voluntary pay incentives because I think they work really well. Give people who want to chase the $$$ every chance to do so, with the added benefit that as the hustlers cover more flying, it’s giving you more opportunity to spend time at home. Something for everyone. Make what general QOL improvements you can- no concessions at all- & keep the rates ahead of inflation. People who want to work get paid to do it, people who want to stay home can; the flying gets covered, & nobody’s losing money.

porkchopexpress

^^^^^^ This^^^^^^

130H227J

TUMI didn’t focus on pay in my opinion. By the end of the contract it finally met the inflation that already happened.

So before I say what’s next- the context is military retiree, 2018 hire, living in SFO base.

FU, pay me.

I will accept a huge percentage pay raise. Current contract isn’t killing anyone and is certainly good enough to attract new hires and retain most of the rest of us. Just pay me. I want inflation to be that part where we say WTF that we were offered or agreed to basically zero pay raise but we wait for a couple years to get back to zero.

Just pay me. F all the weird new retirement machinations, F the BS new reserve rules. Just pay me and let me spend or invest how I choose. Horizon is the tail wagging the big dogs. Let’s buy those guys drinks when we can and hope that spirit trickles uphill.

Im not a commuter, and not a civilian dude, so I bet we have different opinions but I bet also that a lot of the pain could feel a whole lot better with a 40% pay raise.

Aquaticus

I don't know how you see the current pilot usage as "not killing us." We are working more hours in a career than any time in history, less earnings for more work, and with the same horrible headset. Deaf, diabetic from crew meals, and with 12 days off (8 if your a reserve commuter under ta1).

We are worth a lot more than ta1. The great thing about United is there is a goldilocks situation for you... want to make money, widebody lifestyle, or see cool places you can find what makes you happy. This isn't a money or qol situation it is both combined and it is hard to empathize with people doing what makes them happy only focused on one specific section of the contract. We have the leverage right now to fix a lot of sections of our contract.

FlySaint

I disagree that a huge pay raise alone, with everything else static, is sufficient. Our current reserve rules, trip rig, and trip construction are all archaic and in need of overhaul. No one should be repeatedly away 18 days a month, commuter or not. Get a QOL contract with monetary incentives for those that want to trade time off for more cash. There must be a range of choices. This is the year 2022 (with half the nation working 100% from home), and not 1955. We cannot sell ourselves short!

Grumble

No amount of money could ever convince me to live in NJ again, or within 500 miles of that base.