Blocked Calendars
08-30-2022, 11:56 AM
#81
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
Again, more false characterizations of my contention and personal experiences, but where else can you go?
Bye bye B.
08-30-2022, 12:14 PM
#82
Ben Salley
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
Blocked Calendars
It’s was in incredibly poor taste to post the link with those Pilots names on it. That more than anything buttresses my point.
Some in our group can’t be trusted with sensitive information.
And before you retort, just because the information is public, like schedules, doesn’t mean it’s not sensitive. You obviously don’t know the difference…
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08-30-2022, 12:28 PM
#83
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
Are you serious? Just a quick Google search of United v ALPA and it’s there for all the public to consume. Nevermind the fact that it shows your “few guys checking schedules” comment is ridiculous.
Sensitive information? You might want to take that up with Google as you buttress your point.
08-30-2022, 12:44 PM
#84
Ben Salley
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
Are you serious? Just a quick Google search of United v ALPA and it’s there for all the public to consume. Nevermind the fact that it shows your “few guys checking schedules” comment is ridiculous.
Sensitive information? You might want to take that up with Google as you buttress your point.
Sensitive information? You might want to take that up with Google as you buttress your point.
As stated. There is a difference between public and sensitive. And some in our Pilot group can’t be trusted to discern the difference.
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08-30-2022, 01:02 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,501
It certainly does fit my argument. So far, the anti-block crowd has suggested that blocking one’s schedule is tantamount to scabbing, that line Pilots should “police” each other’s schedules to make sure they were getting treated fairly and that in the aforementioned case-law , that the gentlemen concerned didn’t actually check other Pilots schedules.
Time after time former Reps have stated, through experience, the problems with checking other Pilot’s schedules. It’s pretty obvious where and from whom the problems with checking schedules would occur.
I suggest that you bring forth a resolution to make all schedules visible. If it passes, then there’s no reason for this ridiculous thread. If not, same same.
Different paradigm between Pilots. Even when I served on the MEC and occasionally needed to, it always felt a little dirty and intrusive to check another Pilots master schedule. It always seemed cleaner to track the trip, not the Pilot.
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Time after time former Reps have stated, through experience, the problems with checking other Pilot’s schedules. It’s pretty obvious where and from whom the problems with checking schedules would occur.
I suggest that you bring forth a resolution to make all schedules visible. If it passes, then there’s no reason for this ridiculous thread. If not, same same.
Different paradigm between Pilots. Even when I served on the MEC and occasionally needed to, it always felt a little dirty and intrusive to check another Pilots master schedule. It always seemed cleaner to track the trip, not the Pilot.
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08-30-2022, 01:05 PM
#87
Ben Salley
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Left
Posts: 924
Look Tod, as far as I know, the option of blocking or not blocking still rest with the Pilot. Until that changes, this is really just beating a dead horse.
I’m not comfortable screening other Pilot’s schedules, so I don’t do it. You feel it’s a plus for transparency, so you’re just exercising your privilege to do so.
On this small topic, we disagree. It’s really not that big of a deal…
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09-02-2022, 09:17 AM
#88
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
I'll provide a little history. Back when everything was done on the Unix system known as Unimatic, everyone's calendar was viewable by everyone. All you had to do was type in the person and the month.
Fast forward to May 1985. UAL strike. Many of the Scabs, yes, strike breakers are called SCABS, moved to work in the training center and management pilot jobs. They were being protected by upper management, read, Dick Ferris.
What also accompanied this protection was crew desk abuse. The management pilots, and SCAB check airman were being given choice assignments and schedules that blatantly violated the contract. Yes, good ALPA pilots were monitoring SCAB schedules. Thus was born the blocked calendars. If you can't see the schedule and good deals given by the crew desk and your SCAB buddies, you can't grieve it.
Ever since then, some have blocked their calendars for good reasons--few good reasons, others, because they are SCABS and are trying to cheat everyone else, well....because they are SCABS. It makes transparency much harder by not being able to see the schedules.
Now, having said that, I think today we have it much better. Most of the trip trading is controlled by the computer to avoid just such abuse and is much more contractually compliant. But, abuse is still happening by those who have friends in certain places and watch aircraft maintenance movements and cargo trips. Or--pay into a trading group to give heads up on upcoming sick calls. These scams abrogate seniority and cheat everyone involved, and violates the contract. Past practice is a thing when it comes to grievance and contract negotiations. So by cheating the system we all suffer. One way to avoid such abuse is to have some very sharp pilots watching the schedules. You never know who is watching!
Fast forward to May 1985. UAL strike. Many of the Scabs, yes, strike breakers are called SCABS, moved to work in the training center and management pilot jobs. They were being protected by upper management, read, Dick Ferris.
What also accompanied this protection was crew desk abuse. The management pilots, and SCAB check airman were being given choice assignments and schedules that blatantly violated the contract. Yes, good ALPA pilots were monitoring SCAB schedules. Thus was born the blocked calendars. If you can't see the schedule and good deals given by the crew desk and your SCAB buddies, you can't grieve it.
Ever since then, some have blocked their calendars for good reasons--few good reasons, others, because they are SCABS and are trying to cheat everyone else, well....because they are SCABS. It makes transparency much harder by not being able to see the schedules.
Now, having said that, I think today we have it much better. Most of the trip trading is controlled by the computer to avoid just such abuse and is much more contractually compliant. But, abuse is still happening by those who have friends in certain places and watch aircraft maintenance movements and cargo trips. Or--pay into a trading group to give heads up on upcoming sick calls. These scams abrogate seniority and cheat everyone involved, and violates the contract. Past practice is a thing when it comes to grievance and contract negotiations. So by cheating the system we all suffer. One way to avoid such abuse is to have some very sharp pilots watching the schedules. You never know who is watching!
09-02-2022, 11:42 AM
#89
line slug
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 220
CAL has a similar history with open schedule/calendar access, along with the additional issue of multiple Union reps abusing flight pay loss provisions over the years. Once the copies of those shenanigans were posted in crew rooms around the system, access to the schedules of other pilots was restricted to SMEs and management.
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