Kirby: Pilots Overstaffed by 10%
07-13-2022, 08:27 AM
#41
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Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
if we're overstaffed by 10% then there wouldn't be so much senior manning.
No, the pilots aren't in their awarded "bid" seats. So that is incorrect.
From a raw number to block hours ratio, then maybe.
But, that may be true in the fall when things slow down and training sorta catches up.
But our system staffing and scheduling committee could have and should have come up with a press release refuting SK's 10% claim if they were on the ball.
No, the pilots aren't in their awarded "bid" seats. So that is incorrect.
From a raw number to block hours ratio, then maybe.
But, that may be true in the fall when things slow down and training sorta catches up.
But our system staffing and scheduling committee could have and should have come up with a press release refuting SK's 10% claim if they were on the ball.
07-13-2022, 10:50 AM
#42
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I read it all 😄.. and 100% agree. I just meant good on them for working hard to get here at a young age. Even with all the tailwinds its still takes a certain work ethic, responsibility, and drive to make it. That wasn't a statement about them having it bad or even paying dues. I just don't think they should be crapped on for being young. And as a millenial I'm a little jealous... are we getting too old to be made fun of still? Some of us are knocking on 40 yrs old now (I think that's middle aged, right?)
Get off my lawn? it's called turf now
Get off my lawn? it's called turf now
07-13-2022, 11:00 AM
#43
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Joined APC: Feb 2014
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“Overstaffed by 10%”.
Well, I don’t have a squirrel in this race, but GOOD! If pilots are over staffed by 10%, there will be no need for pilots to pick up open time trips!
(p.s.: don’t pickup open trips if you want a new contract anytime soon).
(p.s.: don’t pickup open trips if you want a new contract anytime soon).
07-13-2022, 11:03 AM
#44
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Posts: 2,159
It's a two way street. The employer should have to sell themselves to some degree. They should always be aware of what it takes to attract and retain talent.
You can't keep kicking the dog anymore....That dog may go hunt somewhere else.
Management should be continually reminded of your statement. they need to sell the product to both the consumer and to prospective labor. Management has to earn both the customer and the labor that serves the customer.
07-13-2022, 11:20 AM
#45
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07-13-2022, 11:59 AM
#46
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Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 510
And for the most part, it's ALWAYS been that way. When I came here, yeah, it was a bit of a cut, but I KNEW GOING IN. We all knew going in.
If all they did was sit next to crusty CA's before coming here, they more than likely DID NOT take a pay cut coming here. I know, we can point to the crazy bonus structures that were in place right before COVID and the hard charging FO's that worked their tales off and saw off the chart end of year pay totals. Those are outliers.
Now I know for a self admitted millennial like you, this may be "TL,DR", others may need to retreat to their safe space after reading
Doesn't make it any less valid;
It's becoming more apparent that the latter/bold is coming into play as much if not eclipsing the former.
As far as "catching a break" goes, Gen-Z's career path in this airline hiring climate has pretty much been nothing but ONE BIG BREAK. All the way from the regionals going to the colleges/flight schools to offer contingent jobs once flight time/academic goals are met, the pref selection/flow evolutions, the less stringent hiring/selection phases, what have you.
It depends on whom/when one was being talked to. Was it the guy hired "back in the day" that was about to retire and was in the group where UAL paid him to finish his ratings? Sure, some of them were out of touch, some of them had the "man, you guys got the royal shafting timing wise".
Or was it the twice furloughed pilot that had to PFT in the 90's, had multiple types, 1000s of hours of PIC, wasn't lucky enough to be in the 1/8 hired on the first UAL interview but was when he was invited again where he had a 50/50 shot of being hired? Yeah, that pilot had it worse than someone such as myself and the same peer set as those in my new hire class. If you were to ask Gen-Z about that, you'd probably get a blank stare.
Also, when I interviewed here, and 1 other place, everyone was very friendly, accommodating, etc from hand shake to hand shake. But there was till the sense of "you're pretty lucky to be here interviewing today". From what a lot of new hires say now, it's almost the opposite. The hiring team almost has to do as much selling of United to them as they're having to sell themselves to United. Read these boards, pilots have more, WAY MORE options than ever before.
Now get off my lawn!!!!!!!!!
Anyone see my black socks and slippers? Crap, how am I gonna keep track of my phone if I can't find it's holster....
If all they did was sit next to crusty CA's before coming here, they more than likely DID NOT take a pay cut coming here. I know, we can point to the crazy bonus structures that were in place right before COVID and the hard charging FO's that worked their tales off and saw off the chart end of year pay totals. Those are outliers.
Now I know for a self admitted millennial like you, this may be "TL,DR", others may need to retreat to their safe space after reading
Doesn't make it any less valid;It's becoming more apparent that the latter/bold is coming into play as much if not eclipsing the former.
As far as "catching a break" goes, Gen-Z's career path in this airline hiring climate has pretty much been nothing but ONE BIG BREAK. All the way from the regionals going to the colleges/flight schools to offer contingent jobs once flight time/academic goals are met, the pref selection/flow evolutions, the less stringent hiring/selection phases, what have you.
It depends on whom/when one was being talked to. Was it the guy hired "back in the day" that was about to retire and was in the group where UAL paid him to finish his ratings? Sure, some of them were out of touch, some of them had the "man, you guys got the royal shafting timing wise".
Or was it the twice furloughed pilot that had to PFT in the 90's, had multiple types, 1000s of hours of PIC, wasn't lucky enough to be in the 1/8 hired on the first UAL interview but was when he was invited again where he had a 50/50 shot of being hired? Yeah, that pilot had it worse than someone such as myself and the same peer set as those in my new hire class. If you were to ask Gen-Z about that, you'd probably get a blank stare.
Also, when I interviewed here, and 1 other place, everyone was very friendly, accommodating, etc from hand shake to hand shake. But there was till the sense of "you're pretty lucky to be here interviewing today". From what a lot of new hires say now, it's almost the opposite. The hiring team almost has to do as much selling of United to them as they're having to sell themselves to United. Read these boards, pilots have more, WAY MORE options than ever before.
Now get off my lawn!!!!!!!!!
Anyone see my black socks and slippers? Crap, how am I gonna keep track of my phone if I can't find it's holster....
07-13-2022, 12:57 PM
#48
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Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,752
It's not about the age, it's about the lack of emotional intelligence/life experience that some (not ALL) so outwardly exude. Many "get it" and are humble and have no problems asking questions or simply trying to understand the how/why of where we are today.
Others need to take a back seat, go into receive mode, and recognize they still have A LOT to learn.
See? You're already getting there yourself. Can't tell you how many times I've seen a group of 30 something/millennial FA's complaining the 20 something/Gen-Z's for all the same things....
07-16-2022, 09:55 AM
#50
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Joined APC: Feb 2022
Position: 73FO
Posts: 340
Well what is the definition of staffed? Current and qualified pilots to the number of tails in the fleet flying right now, or pilots with an indoc class date to aircraft we have on the books and near future orders? Depending on how you count those that's going to radically change the staffing level. Keep in mind this is the CEO of an airline trying to please investors and crunching the numbers the worst possible way when the company is going to be accepting new planes that can't fly is going to tank the stock price. That's the most likely angle, not fighting with the crews making this whole thing happen. The pilots have the leverage here and that's clear to everyone who isn't negotiating the contract.
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