Kirby: Pilots Overstaffed by 10%
07-12-2022, 10:42 AM
#21
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
If we are truly 10% overstaffed then the day after the TA fails, if every pilot stops PPU then the truth will be known. I've read PPU numbers are 3x historical averages. If you vote No you should also consider no PPU, IMHO. And then the LCAs can decide what they want to do. It is not too late for another summer of love.
07-12-2022, 11:30 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,321
My guess is that the statement was for the whole airline, not a particular fleet. With 777’s being modified and Asia still mostly down, we could be temporarily overstaffed from previous years based purely as a measure of bodies vs hours.
07-12-2022, 11:39 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 432
Ditto. 0 approved drops since January. Next to impossible to trade. Home 12+ hours after original scheduled time or even the next day due to convenience reassignments. It’s insane they get to reassign us indefinitely if we have one misconnect or cancelled leg and they don’t have to use reserves first. I don’t care about the add pay. I want secure days off.
Last edited by 01110011; 07-12-2022 at 12:04 PM.
07-12-2022, 12:48 PM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Jan 2015
Position: FO
Posts: 149
I’ve made this point on other threads here before. Given that the TA could be described as near-concessionary in that it doesn’t make UAL more appealing as a destination airline in the pilot hiring market place - if anything, if the TA is ratified it makes UAL less appealing - it appears that Kirby is not simply bluffing when he described UAL as overstaffed.
The TA indicates that Kirby doesn’t see a problem going forward with pilot supply. If he did, a rational response would have been to create an incentive for pilot applicants to favor UAL in the pilot hiring market place by incentivizing them with superior pay, retirement, work rules, etc. But Kirby didn’t do that.
Maybe the idea of a pilot shortage isn’t really as critical of an issue in the eyes of airline management as pilots would like to believe it is. Maybe the idea of a pilot shortage doesn’t generate fear for Kirby. Maybe it’s not the leverage pilots think it is.
So, what’s plan B if that is, in fact, the case? What’s the leverage for UAL’s pilot group? More than four years without filing for mediation means the credible threat of self help is years away. How is the UAL pilot group planning to apply leverage to Kirby going forward assuming the TA fails?
The TA indicates that Kirby doesn’t see a problem going forward with pilot supply. If he did, a rational response would have been to create an incentive for pilot applicants to favor UAL in the pilot hiring market place by incentivizing them with superior pay, retirement, work rules, etc. But Kirby didn’t do that.
Maybe the idea of a pilot shortage isn’t really as critical of an issue in the eyes of airline management as pilots would like to believe it is. Maybe the idea of a pilot shortage doesn’t generate fear for Kirby. Maybe it’s not the leverage pilots think it is.
So, what’s plan B if that is, in fact, the case? What’s the leverage for UAL’s pilot group? More than four years without filing for mediation means the credible threat of self help is years away. How is the UAL pilot group planning to apply leverage to Kirby going forward assuming the TA fails?
We're not hiring mature adults anymore for the most part. Kids these days do not know they're history. Starting pay is a dream for them..I personally do not have any faith in next gen pilots.
They're entitled attitude is going to screw us long term. Most 25 year olds would probably think they're rich when they hit 2nd year pay..
07-12-2022, 01:00 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 266
We're not hiring mature adults anymore for the most part. Kids these days do not know they're history. Starting pay is a dream for them..I personally do not have any faith in next gen pilots.
They're entitled attitude is going to screw us long term. Most 25 year olds would probably think they're rich when they hit 2nd year pay..
We're not hiring mature adults anymore for the most part. Kids these days do not know they're history. Starting pay is a dream for them..I personally do not have any faith in next gen pilots.
They're entitled attitude is going to screw us long term. Most 25 year olds would probably think they're rich when they hit 2nd year pay..
07-12-2022, 01:33 PM
#28
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2021
Posts: 56
We're not hiring mature adults anymore for the most part. Kids these days do not know they're history. Starting pay is a dream for them..I personally do not have any faith in next gen pilots.
They're entitled attitude is going to screw us long term. Most 25 year olds would probably think they're rich when they hit 2nd year pay..
We're not hiring mature adults anymore for the most part. Kids these days do not know they're history. Starting pay is a dream for them..I personally do not have any faith in next gen pilots.
They're entitled attitude is going to screw us long term. Most 25 year olds would probably think they're rich when they hit 2nd year pay..
Most people hop to a legacy for the LONG game, I don't think there was a single person in my new hire class that didn't take a paycut to come to UAL and more importantly a QOL cut. Nobody wants this TA to fail harder than the new guys since we have the longest to work under these new "improvements".
This might be a controversial statement for those who don't know, but even current book UAL lags behind even the ULCCs. Vacation, trip trade, reserve, and reassignment rules are antiquated in comparison.
07-12-2022, 01:59 PM
#30
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 867
A lot of new hires took a pay cut to come here. They also got shafted by scope concessions and the enlargement of the RJ or sat next to crusty old Captains that told them all about the lost decade. Some of them even voted down TA’s at their regionals, only to better work rules and increase pay on their TA2s. Most new hires have a lot more skin in the game with decades left to work under whatever concessions the company tries to throw at us. Most also know the difference between their and they’re
You may not like the lost decade crowd but plenty of them did probation multiple times and/or started back at the bottom of their current list several times.
Save your martyrdom - everyone has their story.
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