TA Ballot still open: Make your voice heard!
07-01-2022, 11:58 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 753
07-01-2022, 12:28 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Like I said, I’m not claiming they can’t be wrong- just that it’s the forecast people are working from. No company is going to sign a long-term wage contract that carries 8% inflation into a period forecast to be at 3%.
The reality of the past is in our favor for sizeable increases & reconciliation. Future forecasts as of now don’t support that in the long-term, though.
The reality of the past is in our favor for sizeable increases & reconciliation. Future forecasts as of now don’t support that in the long-term, though.
For example, United’s contract 2000 CA pay rate for large 737’s was $302. Adjusted for inflation since then, that would result in an equivalent 2022 pay rate of $512.
Saying that “no company” is going to pay X for a service or commodity that is required for their company to operate is belied by the fact that airlines are, in reality, not refusing to pay the ever-increasing price for fuel. They pay it because that’s what they have to pay.
If (a big if) pilots stuck to their guns as a profession and required airlines to pay no less than X, the airlines would pay it just like they pay the market price for fuel today. They would pass additional costs on to the consumer just like, it seems, nearly every other company in nearly every sector of the economy is doing today. Pilots and other labor groups do not have to subsidize low fares and executives’ profit-based bonuses.
07-01-2022, 12:31 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,118
In terms of compensation, inflation isn’t the only factor. There’s also the fact that UA and most other major airlines used chapter 11 bankruptcy to impose dramatically reduced pay rates on their pilot groups. That created an artificially low pay structure for airline pilots in America that has persisted for 20 years.
For example, United’s contract 2000 CA pay rate for large 737’s was $302. Adjusted for inflation since then, that would result in an equivalent 2022 pay rate of $512.
Saying that “no company” is going to pay X for a service or commodity that is required for their company to operate is belied by the fact that airlines are, in reality, not refusing to pay the ever-increasing price for fuel. They pay it because that’s what they have to pay.
If (a big if) pilots stuck to their guns as a profession and required airlines to pay no less than X, the airlines would pay it just like they pay the market price for fuel today. They would pass additional costs on to the consumer just like, it seems, nearly every other company in nearly every sector of the economy is doing today. Pilots and other labor groups do not have to subsidize low fares and executives’ profit-based bonuses.
For example, United’s contract 2000 CA pay rate for large 737’s was $302. Adjusted for inflation since then, that would result in an equivalent 2022 pay rate of $512.
Saying that “no company” is going to pay X for a service or commodity that is required for their company to operate is belied by the fact that airlines are, in reality, not refusing to pay the ever-increasing price for fuel. They pay it because that’s what they have to pay.
If (a big if) pilots stuck to their guns as a profession and required airlines to pay no less than X, the airlines would pay it just like they pay the market price for fuel today. They would pass additional costs on to the consumer just like, it seems, nearly every other company in nearly every sector of the economy is doing today. Pilots and other labor groups do not have to subsidize low fares and executives’ profit-based bonuses.
07-01-2022, 01:17 PM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,351
I think I may have derailed the conversation slightly. My comments were in response to some very specific posts suggesting 8% inflation year over year looking forward- which is not what most economic models are forecasting. That’s it. Inflation should not be our sole reference for negotiating pay rate adjustments, neither are pay rates the totality of our compensation.
07-01-2022, 01:21 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: DOWNGRADE COMPLETE: Thanks Gary. Thanks SWAPA.
Posts: 6,783
Just for some perspective, general professional consensus (which is worth what it’s worth) is for inflation to level off back toward 2%-3% beyond 2022. I don’t think anyone will sign onto a long term deal that considers 8% inflation year over year. A big front-end increase to account for the past few years followed by more moderate increases thereafter would more realistically follow most economic forecasts.
That’s just touching on the pay side of the equation. I realize you were making a larger point about not trading work rules for pay, which I agree with.
That’s just touching on the pay side of the equation. I realize you were making a larger point about not trading work rules for pay, which I agree with.
07-01-2022, 01:33 PM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
Originally Posted by AlettaOcean;[url=tel:3452791
3452791[/url]]Rumor has it that 3000 votes are in. 2700 NO.
Not sure how they got access to the information, but that’s the rumor.
Not sure how they got access to the information, but that’s the rumor.
1.) It would be a huge violation of federal labor law. This isn’t just an in house UAL ALPA program under our own rules… there would be serious consequences.
2.) Based on current sentiment, I’m betting way more than 2700 pilots smashed that “no” button the moment voting opened.
07-01-2022, 03:32 PM
#19
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 84
Two reason I dont believe it…
1.) It would be a huge violation of federal labor law. This isn’t just an in house UAL ALPA program under our own rules… there would be serious consequences.
2.) Based on current sentiment, I’m betting way more than 2700 pilots smashed that “no” button the moment voting opened.
1.) It would be a huge violation of federal labor law. This isn’t just an in house UAL ALPA program under our own rules… there would be serious consequences.
2.) Based on current sentiment, I’m betting way more than 2700 pilots smashed that “no” button the moment voting opened.
Does this Aletta guy just make s up?
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