funding the 5am report change
06-26-2022, 01:55 PM
#1
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 940
funding the 5am report change
Scenario
Trip can't be assigned to the reserve pilots so the crew desk has to advertise the trip with 50%, 75%, 100% add pay or use VDO or VRSM. This means that the minimum cost to the company is 7.5 hours of pay and could be 15 hours of pay (or higher with VRSM)
With TA
Trip gets assigned to one of the reserves. That reserve gets 2 hours of Add pay, making the assignment worth 17 hours. The initial pay raise is 4%, so that makes the total worth 17.68 hours (in today's hours/pay)
So, if this TA is approved instead of this assignment going for 22.5 to 30 hours (or more with VRSM) it will be covered for 17.68 hours. So, the company saves 5-12.5 hours and instead of a voluntary assignment you have an involuntary one.
I am willing to bet my next paycheck that in the supposed 1.3 Billion dollars of benefits the pilots "receive" in this TA they are only including the 2.68 hours of pay that this scenario produces in their "calculus," not the loss of 5-12.5 hours that it actually produces.
What I want to know is how much pay has 50%, 75%, 100%, VDO and VRSM produced in the last quarter. Then multiply that number by 8 (1/4 x 8 = 2 years). Then include the standard "fringe" addition to calculate the total value of all of that compensation. Then ask if that dollar amount was deducted from the "value" that this TA gets for the pilots since the TA will go a long way in wiping out that pay that is currently available? If not, why not? I am sure the answer is that it hasn't been and that is because if it were it would become obvious that we are funding our own TA and not getting any extra value in return, while the company is reaping all the benefits of the return in travel demand.
- Three day trip that pays 15 hours is open and has an 8 am checkin
- only reserves available are coming off of days off
- nobody picks up trip before 1045 am the day prior
Trip can't be assigned to the reserve pilots so the crew desk has to advertise the trip with 50%, 75%, 100% add pay or use VDO or VRSM. This means that the minimum cost to the company is 7.5 hours of pay and could be 15 hours of pay (or higher with VRSM)
With TA
Trip gets assigned to one of the reserves. That reserve gets 2 hours of Add pay, making the assignment worth 17 hours. The initial pay raise is 4%, so that makes the total worth 17.68 hours (in today's hours/pay)
So, if this TA is approved instead of this assignment going for 22.5 to 30 hours (or more with VRSM) it will be covered for 17.68 hours. So, the company saves 5-12.5 hours and instead of a voluntary assignment you have an involuntary one.
I am willing to bet my next paycheck that in the supposed 1.3 Billion dollars of benefits the pilots "receive" in this TA they are only including the 2.68 hours of pay that this scenario produces in their "calculus," not the loss of 5-12.5 hours that it actually produces.
What I want to know is how much pay has 50%, 75%, 100%, VDO and VRSM produced in the last quarter. Then multiply that number by 8 (1/4 x 8 = 2 years). Then include the standard "fringe" addition to calculate the total value of all of that compensation. Then ask if that dollar amount was deducted from the "value" that this TA gets for the pilots since the TA will go a long way in wiping out that pay that is currently available? If not, why not? I am sure the answer is that it hasn't been and that is because if it were it would become obvious that we are funding our own TA and not getting any extra value in return, while the company is reaping all the benefits of the return in travel demand.
06-26-2022, 05:01 PM
#3
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 36
The TA is a double whammy. Well done negotiators! It screws over both Reserves and Line Holders. Wow...
06-27-2022, 03:39 AM
#4
Banned
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 184
Scenario
Trip can't be assigned to the reserve pilots so the crew desk has to advertise the trip with 50%, 75%, 100% add pay or use VDO or VRSM. This means that the minimum cost to the company is 7.5 hours of pay and could be 15 hours of pay (or higher with VRSM)
With TA
Trip gets assigned to one of the reserves. That reserve gets 2 hours of Add pay, making the assignment worth 17 hours. The initial pay raise is 4%, so that makes the total worth 17.68 hours (in today's hours/pay)
So, if this TA is approved instead of this assignment going for 22.5 to 30 hours (or more with VRSM) it will be covered for 17.68 hours. So, the company saves 5-12.5 hours and instead of a voluntary assignment you have an involuntary one.
I am willing to bet my next paycheck that in the supposed 1.3 Billion dollars of benefits the pilots "receive" in this TA they are only including the 2.68 hours of pay that this scenario produces in their "calculus," not the loss of 5-12.5 hours that it actually produces.
What I want to know is how much pay has 50%, 75%, 100%, VDO and VRSM produced in the last quarter. Then multiply that number by 8 (1/4 x 8 = 2 years). Then include the standard "fringe" addition to calculate the total value of all of that compensation. Then ask if that dollar amount was deducted from the "value" that this TA gets for the pilots since the TA will go a long way in wiping out that pay that is currently available? If not, why not? I am sure the answer is that it hasn't been and that is because if it were it would become obvious that we are funding our own TA and not getting any extra value in return, while the company is reaping all the benefits of the return in travel demand.
- Three day trip that pays 15 hours is open and has an 8 am checkin
- only reserves available are coming off of days off
- nobody picks up trip before 1045 am the day prior
Trip can't be assigned to the reserve pilots so the crew desk has to advertise the trip with 50%, 75%, 100% add pay or use VDO or VRSM. This means that the minimum cost to the company is 7.5 hours of pay and could be 15 hours of pay (or higher with VRSM)
With TA
Trip gets assigned to one of the reserves. That reserve gets 2 hours of Add pay, making the assignment worth 17 hours. The initial pay raise is 4%, so that makes the total worth 17.68 hours (in today's hours/pay)
So, if this TA is approved instead of this assignment going for 22.5 to 30 hours (or more with VRSM) it will be covered for 17.68 hours. So, the company saves 5-12.5 hours and instead of a voluntary assignment you have an involuntary one.
I am willing to bet my next paycheck that in the supposed 1.3 Billion dollars of benefits the pilots "receive" in this TA they are only including the 2.68 hours of pay that this scenario produces in their "calculus," not the loss of 5-12.5 hours that it actually produces.
What I want to know is how much pay has 50%, 75%, 100%, VDO and VRSM produced in the last quarter. Then multiply that number by 8 (1/4 x 8 = 2 years). Then include the standard "fringe" addition to calculate the total value of all of that compensation. Then ask if that dollar amount was deducted from the "value" that this TA gets for the pilots since the TA will go a long way in wiping out that pay that is currently available? If not, why not? I am sure the answer is that it hasn't been and that is because if it were it would become obvious that we are funding our own TA and not getting any extra value in return, while the company is reaping all the benefits of the return in travel demand.
All true. This TA isn’t costing the company a dime. I would even bet that by screwing the premium pay pilots over, they are funding the pay increases for the pilot instructors.
The company is coming out WAY AHEAD on this deal.
06-27-2022, 04:50 PM
#5
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
Scenario
Trip can't be assigned to the reserve pilots so the crew desk has to advertise the trip with 50%, 75%, 100% add pay or use VDO or VRSM. This means that the minimum cost to the company is 7.5 hours of pay and could be 15 hours of pay (or higher with VRSM)
With TA
Trip gets assigned to one of the reserves. That reserve gets 2 hours of Add pay, making the assignment worth 17 hours. The initial pay raise is 4%, so that makes the total worth 17.68 hours (in today's hours/pay)
So, if this TA is approved instead of this assignment going for 22.5 to 30 hours (or more with VRSM) it will be covered for 17.68 hours. So, the company saves 5-12.5 hours and instead of a voluntary assignment you have an involuntary one.
I am willing to bet my next paycheck that in the supposed 1.3 Billion dollars of benefits the pilots "receive" in this TA they are only including the 2.68 hours of pay that this scenario produces in their "calculus," not the loss of 5-12.5 hours that it actually produces.
What I want to know is how much pay has 50%, 75%, 100%, VDO and VRSM produced in the last quarter. Then multiply that number by 8 (1/4 x 8 = 2 years). Then include the standard "fringe" addition to calculate the total value of all of that compensation. Then ask if that dollar amount was deducted from the "value" that this TA gets for the pilots since the TA will go a long way in wiping out that pay that is currently available? If not, why not? I am sure the answer is that it hasn't been and that is because if it were it would become obvious that we are funding our own TA and not getting any extra value in return, while the company is reaping all the benefits of the return in travel demand.
- Three day trip that pays 15 hours is open and has an 8 am checkin
- only reserves available are coming off of days off
- nobody picks up trip before 1045 am the day prior
Trip can't be assigned to the reserve pilots so the crew desk has to advertise the trip with 50%, 75%, 100% add pay or use VDO or VRSM. This means that the minimum cost to the company is 7.5 hours of pay and could be 15 hours of pay (or higher with VRSM)
With TA
Trip gets assigned to one of the reserves. That reserve gets 2 hours of Add pay, making the assignment worth 17 hours. The initial pay raise is 4%, so that makes the total worth 17.68 hours (in today's hours/pay)
So, if this TA is approved instead of this assignment going for 22.5 to 30 hours (or more with VRSM) it will be covered for 17.68 hours. So, the company saves 5-12.5 hours and instead of a voluntary assignment you have an involuntary one.
I am willing to bet my next paycheck that in the supposed 1.3 Billion dollars of benefits the pilots "receive" in this TA they are only including the 2.68 hours of pay that this scenario produces in their "calculus," not the loss of 5-12.5 hours that it actually produces.
What I want to know is how much pay has 50%, 75%, 100%, VDO and VRSM produced in the last quarter. Then multiply that number by 8 (1/4 x 8 = 2 years). Then include the standard "fringe" addition to calculate the total value of all of that compensation. Then ask if that dollar amount was deducted from the "value" that this TA gets for the pilots since the TA will go a long way in wiping out that pay that is currently available? If not, why not? I am sure the answer is that it hasn't been and that is because if it were it would become obvious that we are funding our own TA and not getting any extra value in return, while the company is reaping all the benefits of the return in travel demand.
Also, do you honestly think that every new contract does not come with similar give/takes? Our reserve rules absolutely suck, this is the first honest attempt in my 22 years here to rethink how the whole process works.
So how exactly would you fix reserves?
06-27-2022, 04:55 PM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 146
10am is a function of part 117, not our contract..early shows on the first day of reserves was the norm before. Nor does the current contract prevent the company from assigning training or a single DH segment.
Also, do you honestly think that every new contract does not come with similar give/takes? Our reserve rules absolutely suck, this is the first honest attempt in my 22 years here to rethink how the whole process works.
So how exactly would you fix reserves?
Also, do you honestly think that every new contract does not come with similar give/takes? Our reserve rules absolutely suck, this is the first honest attempt in my 22 years here to rethink how the whole process works.
So how exactly would you fix reserves?
1400 first available like JetBlue
and you keep your add pay to pay for it.
Are LEC and MEC sending lapdogs out to social media to fight the negative take on this thing. Get ‘em fanboy. Maybe you’ll get a good volunteer gig and some treats.
06-27-2022, 04:59 PM
#7
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
Nobody in the real world cares what anybody says or does here in internet land. It costs you nothing to throw spears and lambast anything anybody else does.
06-27-2022, 05:04 PM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 146
Your team failed. I answer your question. Absolutely I will pick items out to give you examples. Nobody is picketing in our industry because we don’t have enough “Add Pay”. We want more time off and quality of life. That’s what your Masters don’t get.
06-27-2022, 05:07 PM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
Is that the best you have? You want JB’s work rules???? Anybody can cherry pick something better from somebody else’s contract.
Nobody in the real world cares what anybody says or does here in internet land. It costs you nothing to throw spears and lambast anything anybody else does.
Nobody in the real world cares what anybody says or does here in internet land. It costs you nothing to throw spears and lambast anything anybody else does.
Chen is that you?
06-27-2022, 05:09 PM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,520
Is that the best you have? You want JB’s work rules???? Anybody can cherry pick something better from somebody else’s contract.
Nobody in the real world cares what anybody says or does here in internet land. It costs you nothing to throw spears and lambast anything anybody else does.
Nobody in the real world cares what anybody says or does here in internet land. It costs you nothing to throw spears and lambast anything anybody else does.
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