Retired pilots in the sim is scope concession
06-27-2022, 02:30 PM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Additionally remember that management controls the interview process of line pilots trying to become PIs. So, when the Union says "in case not enough pilots are interested" remember that actually means in case the company doesn't want to hire expensive line pilots when they can just actually hire inexpensive retired pilots.
This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!
This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!
06-27-2022, 02:46 PM
#32
Line Holder
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 62
^^THIS^^
We have hired over 5thousand pilots since the merger. What most of those pilots don't know is that FSB was something we Legacy Pilots did not have before C2012 and when questioned at one of the Road Shows, our own union stated-
"They'll never use it"
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract
Always
Motch
We have hired over 5thousand pilots since the merger. What most of those pilots don't know is that FSB was something we Legacy Pilots did not have before C2012 and when questioned at one of the Road Shows, our own union stated-
"They'll never use it"
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract
Always
Motch
Sorry Bro, but lCal had it.
25-11-O-1: Should operations require, a Reserve Pilot may be used for “Airport Standby” duty.
1. The Duty Period as an Airport Standby is limited to five (5) hours. An
assigned Trip Pairing must have a scheduled departure within that period. If no
scheduled departure is assigned within the five (5) hour period, the pilot must
be released for at least the length of a Base Rest Period.
2. The five (5) hour Duty Period for a pilot on Airport Standby begins at Report
Time.
06-27-2022, 06:09 PM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 62
Sorry homie thems the breaks. There are no 65 year old airline pilots. You do not give a job required to be filled by a seniority list pilot to a non-seniority list pilot. That is a concession.
06-27-2022, 06:12 PM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: May 2018
Posts: 62
Additionally remember that management controls the interview process of line pilots trying to become PIs. So, when the Union says "in case not enough pilots are interested" remember that actually means in case the company doesn't want to hire expensive line pilots when they can just actually hire inexpensive retired pilots.
This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!
This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!
06-27-2022, 06:18 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
We had pure FSB lines at UAL back in the day. Paid 90 hrs. Went to the most senior reserves. Different times though. Not sure how it would go over in today’s PPU world.
06-27-2022, 08:14 PM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
someone posted a pic of LUAL Pay Rates from your 2000 contract and it’s just nuts how LUAL pilots have still not fully recovered what they lost.
as far as FSB at LCAL, not sure which contract it was in there but if SCd says it was there, I don’t recall it in the contract in 07-12 and never sat airport reserve while a LCAL guy. Maybe I got lucky or it was a fleet thing..
06-29-2022, 06:18 AM
#37
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 94
TK manning is clearly the unions leverage behind this contract. The company recognizes this an never wants the union to have this leverage again - this is the reasoning behind the inclusion of the PUPs clause. If the company cannot staff the training center with the standard supply/demand that market economics decide within the seniority list than this clause allows an additional pool of labor that has zero leverage to make future changes.
06-29-2022, 06:42 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
TK manning is clearly the unions leverage behind this contract. The company recognizes this an never wants the union to have this leverage again - this is the reasoning behind the inclusion of the PUPs clause. If the company cannot staff the training center with the standard supply/demand that market economics decide within the seniority list than this clause allows an additional pool of labor that has zero leverage to make future changes.
Why can't the CAL pilots just simply have our LTD overpayments back with no strings attached? Clearly ALPA legal told them it was OK to release the money, otherwise it wouldn't be so obviously attached to the TA. Very dishonest and disingenuous in my opinion. Typically, when other forms of overpayment are concerned, I get a check back in a reasonable time frame once the error has been discovered and agreed to. WTF? That's a bad look.
06-29-2022, 06:51 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2011
Position: Hoping for any position
Posts: 2,520
At NWA, our contract required that not only did IPs have to be a seniority list pilot, it had to be a captain instructor. For every IP they hired, that meant they needed to add another captain position. This survived even bankruptcy.
After the merger, we went to the DAL language on this, and it was a major giveback worth probably 300 jobs.
After the merger, we went to the DAL language on this, and it was a major giveback worth probably 300 jobs.
06-29-2022, 07:07 AM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Position: 777 CA
Posts: 1,039
was that part of you’re pre bankruptcy contract? Or 2000ish?
someone posted a pic of LUAL Pay Rates from your 2000 contract and it’s just nuts how LUAL pilots have still not fully recovered what they lost.
as far as FSB at LCAL, not sure which contract it was in there but if SCd says it was there, I don’t recall it in the contract in 07-12 and never sat airport reserve while a LCAL guy. Maybe I got lucky or it was a fleet thing..
someone posted a pic of LUAL Pay Rates from your 2000 contract and it’s just nuts how LUAL pilots have still not fully recovered what they lost.
as far as FSB at LCAL, not sure which contract it was in there but if SCd says it was there, I don’t recall it in the contract in 07-12 and never sat airport reserve while a LCAL guy. Maybe I got lucky or it was a fleet thing..
B-2-b- A reserve shall be limited to seventy-five (75) actual flight hours. A reserve may exceed the monthly credit limit as long as his actual projection does not exceed seventy-five (75) hours. However, a reserve may fly up to eighty-one (81) actual flight hours provided his flight pay credit does not exceed eighty-one (81) hours.
coupled with
5-G-5-b- A pilot on standby duty will receive five hours (5:00) pay credit and have his total allowable monthly flight time reduced by five hours (5:00) for each standby assignment which does not result in a flight assignment.
Made it so the scheduling really had to need a FSB to use it since they would be losing 5 hrs of availability for the month every time one was assigned. Hit those hours and you were off the rest of the month. Again different times now. Our mindset back then seemed to be “give me enough pay so that I don’t want to work extra” vs today’s love fest of PPU and getting max W2s
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