Retired pilots in the sim is scope concession
06-26-2022, 03:23 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Big time and any rep who voted yes should be gone…NOW! To even fathom allowing someone not on our seniority list in a seat contractually held by a pilot on the seniority list is grounds for immediate recall or simply have the courage to step down.
06-26-2022, 03:32 PM
#22
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Joined APC: Jul 2019
Posts: 174
I meant how would using UAL line guys who just hit 65 for sim giving concessions. Didn’t realise the company was considering bringing in OAL 65+ pilots to train in sims.
06-26-2022, 03:33 PM
#23
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Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 463
Because they should be booted out at 65! No different than a line pilot. And it’s not a bid position. Let’s be honest the ones that get those bubba deals are those that have given management a reason to put their arms around them and take care of them post retirement.
06-26-2022, 03:34 PM
#24
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Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
Once they hit 65, they are no longer on your MSL. My understanding is that training center pilots at UA currently have to be on the MSL. To allow non-MSL pilots to begin filling jobs currently required to be filled by MSL pilots is a huge give in terms of scope and a huge camel’s nose under the tent.
06-26-2022, 03:39 PM
#25
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Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
^^THIS^^
We have hired over 5thousand pilots since the merger. What most of those pilots don't know is that FSB was something we Legacy Pilots did not have before C2012 and when questioned at one of the Road Shows, our own union stated-
"They'll never use it"
Same when they said "We didn't raise the 76-3 pay as those airplanes are leaving and we didn't want to waste negotiation capital on them"..
Hmmmm
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract
Always
Motch
We have hired over 5thousand pilots since the merger. What most of those pilots don't know is that FSB was something we Legacy Pilots did not have before C2012 and when questioned at one of the Road Shows, our own union stated-
"They'll never use it"
Same when they said "We didn't raise the 76-3 pay as those airplanes are leaving and we didn't want to waste negotiation capital on them"..
Hmmmm
Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract
Always
Motch
06-26-2022, 04:06 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Jan 2017
Posts: 105
Virtually every line item in this TA is sufficient for a NO vote on it's own merit; but to see all this stuff cobbled together in one go is just amazing.
06-26-2022, 04:35 PM
#27
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Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
It seems that it was a concession to lower it to No Pay as it sits now, in your (And ALL Legacy United Pilots) case.
FS, FP & FtC
Motch
06-26-2022, 05:24 PM
#28
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Joined APC: Oct 2020
Posts: 345
Honestly it’s been a long time. I’d have to go dig out the old contract but assume it was bankruptcy that slashed it. I do remember doing a FSB and getting an assignment right before the 4 hrs ended. I was ticked that I would lose the 5 hrs of pay and only get the couple hours of pay for the flying. Fortunately, the crew desk was informed the assignment was illegal and I kept the 5 hrs. I’m sure someone has the details on that part of the contract.
Last edited by TodKindrsChikun; 06-26-2022 at 06:05 PM.
06-26-2022, 07:14 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Sep 2013
Posts: 941
Additionally remember that management controls the interview process of line pilots trying to become PIs. So, when the Union says "in case not enough pilots are interested" remember that actually means in case the company doesn't want to hire expensive line pilots when they can just actually hire inexpensive retired pilots.
This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!
This is a total Scope give and we will have given the control of how much scope entirely to the company with no restrictions other than having to advertise the jobs every two years only to have the company say not enough "qualified" applicants applied!!!
06-26-2022, 07:41 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
At NWA, our contract required that not only did IPs have to be a seniority list pilot, it had to be a captain instructor. For every IP they hired, that meant they needed to add another captain position. This survived even bankruptcy.
After the merger, we went to the DAL language on this, and it was a major giveback worth probably 300 jobs.
After the merger, we went to the DAL language on this, and it was a major giveback worth probably 300 jobs.
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