Latest AIP rumor 6/7/22
07-01-2022, 11:24 PM
#491
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Posts: 1,264
You are 100% correct.. Weak minded yes men did negotiate this TA and the same types gave away our pension and continue to make excuses for the company. I think it should go without saying, but bears repeating, that we are not paid based on our flying skills. Our compensation is based on our REPLACEABILITY. Management and our union leaders do not want you to recognize the honest economic truth that we can regain everything that has been taken from us over the years because at this point in history we CAN’T be replaced. That’s where the idea of “Unity” comes in to play..we’ve already seen what a lack of unity brought us.
If we expect management to take us seriously we need to immediately start the procedures required by the RLA as soon as this TA is voted down …
step one is to request mediation…this should have been done on January 2nd 2019 the day after our amendable date.
The required RLA steps for those not familiar are:
-Section 6 negotiations
-Request mediation
-Agree to binding arbitration or declare an impasse
-Cooling off period
-Self help
If we expect management to take us seriously we need to immediately start the procedures required by the RLA as soon as this TA is voted down …
step one is to request mediation…this should have been done on January 2nd 2019 the day after our amendable date.
The required RLA steps for those not familiar are:
-Section 6 negotiations
-Request mediation
-Agree to binding arbitration or declare an impasse
-Cooling off period
-Self help
You guys absolutely need to file for mediation. It’s better late than never but it’s tragic how much time has been wasted as a result of your MEC and NC’s inaction.
The NMB and the courts primarily count “time in mediation” vs “time in negotiations” as one of their main metrics for determining when a release is appropriate. “Time in mediation” is what really matters. “Time in negotiations” matters very little in comparison.
Typically, it takes about 2.5 to 3 years in mediation before a release might begin to become realistic. Your MEC and NC haven’t even started the clock yet.
One of the only caveats that applies to when to file for mediation is that you don’t want to file too soon after beginning negotiations. In 2010, the NMB explained in their “Dunlop Report” that, “One problem noted is that a party may prematurely file for mediation. This may be motivated by a desire to ‘get on the clock’ to establish an early start date in order to more persuasively argue later for a release.” This caveat doesn’t apply to you guys since you’re already so deep into negotiations. You guys began negotiations in March 2018.
07-02-2022, 02:58 AM
#492
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 95
I’ve posted numerous times on this United board about the criticality of filing for mediation in a timely manner. It’s almost prima facie evidence of cluelessness and/or negligence on your MEC and NC’s part that mediation was not filed for all this time. It is difficult to overstate how much a sign of incompetence that is.
You guys absolutely need to file for mediation. It’s better late than never but it’s tragic how much time has been wasted as a result of your MEC and NC’s inaction.
The NMB and the courts primarily count “time in mediation” vs “time in negotiations” as one of their main metrics for determining when a release is appropriate. “Time in mediation” is what really matters. “Time in negotiations” matters very little in comparison.
Typically, it takes about 2.5 to 3 years in mediation before a release might begin to become realistic. Your MEC and NC haven’t even started the clock yet.
One of the only caveats that applies to when to file for mediation is that you don’t want to file too soon after beginning negotiations. In 2010, the NMB explained in their “Dunlop Report” that, “One problem noted is that a party may prematurely file for mediation. This may be motivated by a desire to ‘get on the clock’ to establish an early start date in order to more persuasively argue later for a release.” This caveat doesn’t apply to you guys since you’re already so deep into negotiations. You guys began negotiations in March 2018.
You guys absolutely need to file for mediation. It’s better late than never but it’s tragic how much time has been wasted as a result of your MEC and NC’s inaction.
The NMB and the courts primarily count “time in mediation” vs “time in negotiations” as one of their main metrics for determining when a release is appropriate. “Time in mediation” is what really matters. “Time in negotiations” matters very little in comparison.
Typically, it takes about 2.5 to 3 years in mediation before a release might begin to become realistic. Your MEC and NC haven’t even started the clock yet.
One of the only caveats that applies to when to file for mediation is that you don’t want to file too soon after beginning negotiations. In 2010, the NMB explained in their “Dunlop Report” that, “One problem noted is that a party may prematurely file for mediation. This may be motivated by a desire to ‘get on the clock’ to establish an early start date in order to more persuasively argue later for a release.” This caveat doesn’t apply to you guys since you’re already so deep into negotiations. You guys began negotiations in March 2018.
07-02-2022, 03:46 AM
#494
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Posts: 194
Most of the new guys I fly with have no idea whatsoever as to whether a legacy can be released. That’s pretty shocking to me considering how obvious the answer is.
07-02-2022, 04:32 AM
#495
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Position: N/A
Posts: 607
But you’re right, this TA is a bad deal.
07-02-2022, 06:28 AM
#496
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
Despite what we say to ourselves to the mirror every morning, we're not the center of the universe.
https://raillaborfacts.org/news/nmb-...or-agreements/
07-02-2022, 07:07 AM
#497
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 95
All the major railroads just got released into their 30 day cooling off period by the NMB. One could argue that all of the large railroads going out at once is a larger impact than a single airline, no matter how big.
Despite what we say to ourselves to the mirror every morning, we're not the center of the universe.
https://raillaborfacts.org/news/nmb-...or-agreements/
Despite what we say to ourselves to the mirror every morning, we're not the center of the universe.
https://raillaborfacts.org/news/nmb-...or-agreements/
07-02-2022, 09:19 AM
#498
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2012
Posts: 237
The argument that a legacy carrier would never be released to self help does not consider that the process itself is defined as THE way that negotiations are to be handled in this country…
To infer that we should never start the process because you presume that we will never be allowed to reach the stage of self help, means that we miss out on the value of the leverage that is escalated throughout the process.
With that mentality we would all benefit by accepting that our leverage is zero, discontinue union activities, and create a pilot ops group to request future work rules and compensation from management..
07-02-2022, 09:21 AM
#499
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 95
Section 6 of the Railway Labor Act provides the legal framework for airline labor negotiations…
The argument that a legacy carrier would never be released to self help does not consider that the process itself is defined as THE way that negotiations are to be handled in this country…
To infer that we should never start the process because you presume that we will never be allowed to reach the stage of self help, means that we miss out on the value of the leverage that is escalated throughout the process.
With that mentality we would all benefit by accepting that our leverage is zero, discontinue union activities, and create a union ops group to request future work rules and compensation from management..
The argument that a legacy carrier would never be released to self help does not consider that the process itself is defined as THE way that negotiations are to be handled in this country…
To infer that we should never start the process because you presume that we will never be allowed to reach the stage of self help, means that we miss out on the value of the leverage that is escalated throughout the process.
With that mentality we would all benefit by accepting that our leverage is zero, discontinue union activities, and create a union ops group to request future work rules and compensation from management..
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
