Latest AIP rumor 6/7/22
06-21-2022, 10:12 PM
#351
Banned
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 411
Like I said " I don't want to be a product of my environmentI want my environment to be a product of me" The Departed .
06-22-2022, 02:24 AM
#352
line slug
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: B777 Captain
Posts: 220
That, right there, is funny. So, Great Negotiator, what will you do when the company tells you to pound sand? You gonna go back to your MEC and tell them to call for a job action, which is probably only supported by the 1% of knuckle dragging pilots who post on the forums?
06-22-2022, 03:59 AM
#353
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 95
That is not how negotiations work. You may not like or understand that, but it is in fact the truth. Gerald, Linda, and Deirdre (you know who they are, right?) will not have any patience for that tactic (and yes, that is a tactic). I encourage you to ask your reps, or better yet a member of the NC to explain the process to you. Even better, attend ALPA’s annual Negotiating or SPSC seminar. It’s okay that you don’t understand the process as you’ve never had to play an active role in it. It’s not okay that you pretend to and personify the Dunning-Kruger effect. It’s obvious you’re angry but anger with ignorance is worse than solely being angry. If that doesn’t work for you, I have a quote to share: “there’s no justice in this world” - Frank Costello, The Departed.
06-22-2022, 04:19 AM
#354
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2022
Position: :)
Posts: 464
That is not how negotiations work. You may not like or understand that, but it is in fact the truth. Gerald, Linda, and Deirdre (you know who they are, right?) will not have any patience for that tactic (and yes, that is a tactic). I encourage you to ask your reps, or better yet a member of the NC to explain the process to you. Even better, attend ALPA’s annual Negotiating or SPSC seminar. It’s okay that you don’t understand the process as you’ve never had to play an active role in it. It’s not okay that you pretend to and personify the Dunning-Kruger effect. It’s obvious you’re angry but anger with ignorance is worse than solely being angry. If that doesn’t work for you, I have a quote to share: “there’s no justice in this world” - Frank Costello, The Departed.
Good luck United!
06-22-2022, 05:48 AM
#355
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,464
This. That being said, this will be the easiest negotiation in history. Record RASM, inflation is the headline everywhere and a real pilot shortage is upon us. Should be pretty easy to recover real world losses due to inflation. Inflation isn't going anywhere. A 2% target is a pipe dream outside a Depression.
Good luck United!
Good luck United!
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
06-22-2022, 05:54 AM
#356
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 95
That being said Q1 was massive losses and while everyone expects Q2 to be a huge profit, those numbers won't come out for at least 30 more days so the MECs decision will happen beforehand. It will be up to the pilot group to say what's what after seeing q2 results. (assuming it passes the MEC)
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk
06-22-2022, 06:17 AM
#357
Banned
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 411
[QUOTE=elmetal;3445465]That being said Q1 was massive losses and while everyone expects Q2 to be a huge profit, those numbers won't come out for at least 30 more days so the MECs decision will happen beforehand. It will be up to the pilot group to say what's what after seeing q2 results. (assuming it passes the MEC)
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk[/QUal and OTE]
Should have everybody concerned. My guess is that they agreed the PI and LCA pay was hurting them and sweetened that pot. Then the NC saw the % increase even tho it was already way south of DAL and jumped on it leaving the rest of us to fight over the scraps. Not pessimistic just realistic.
The company obviously jumped at signing this de
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk[/QUal and OTE]
Should have everybody concerned. My guess is that they agreed the PI and LCA pay was hurting them and sweetened that pot. Then the NC saw the % increase even tho it was already way south of DAL and jumped on it leaving the rest of us to fight over the scraps. Not pessimistic just realistic.
The company obviously jumped at signing this de
06-22-2022, 06:25 AM
#358
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
[QUOTE=Mytime2025;3445495]
I actually had a good conversation with a P2P representative a few weeks prior to the AIP announcement. He explained the dynamic between the ccompany negotiators and ours since last winter. The company has been trying to close out the contract since then...but had brought several 'low' offers to the table. So no, this isn’t a last minute effort by the company. But there's little doubt that they are trying to close the deal BEFORE the profits fully develop! The MEC and NC are fully aware of the timing and implications of signing a deal that may not fully capture the ultimate profitability of the operation.
That being said Q1 was massive losses and while everyone expects Q2 to be a huge profit, those numbers won't come out for at least 30 more days so the MECs decision will happen beforehand. It will be up to the pilot group to say what's what after seeing q2 results. (assuming it passes the MEC)
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk[/QUal and OTE]
Should have everybody concerned. My guess is that they agreed the PI and LCA pay was hurting them and sweetened that pot. Then the NC saw the % increase even tho it was already way south of DAL and jumped on it leaving the rest of us to fight over the scraps. Not pessimistic just realistic.
The company obviously jumped at signing this de
I'm personally a skeptic of the speed of things that happened last minute, like they were intentionally trying to beat q2 earnings release.
Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk[/QUal and OTE]
Should have everybody concerned. My guess is that they agreed the PI and LCA pay was hurting them and sweetened that pot. Then the NC saw the % increase even tho it was already way south of DAL and jumped on it leaving the rest of us to fight over the scraps. Not pessimistic just realistic.
The company obviously jumped at signing this de
06-22-2022, 07:05 AM
#359
Banned
Joined APC: May 2022
Posts: 411
[QUOTE=AxlF16;3445505]
I actually had a good conversation with a P2P representative a few weeks prior to the AIP announcement. He explained the dynamic between the ccompany negotiators and ours since last winter. The company has been trying to close out the contract since then...but had brought several 'low' offers to the table. So no, this isn’t a last minute effort by the company. But there's little doubt that they are trying to close the deal BEFORE the profits fully develop! The MEC and NC are fully aware of the timing and implications of signing a deal that may not fully capture the ultimate profitability of the operation.
This TA will be the poster child for buyers remorse within 6months of approval. Profits will be off the charts as fuel prices crash and fares stay sky high. Oh sure we all will.get our little taxable profit sharing cupcake and think how great it is while we all march off to work like good little soldier's. Just remember people that make " real money" don't wear hats. And a P2P guy said don't expect anything until the fall and that was 5 days before the AIP. Just shows how in the know they are.
I actually had a good conversation with a P2P representative a few weeks prior to the AIP announcement. He explained the dynamic between the ccompany negotiators and ours since last winter. The company has been trying to close out the contract since then...but had brought several 'low' offers to the table. So no, this isn’t a last minute effort by the company. But there's little doubt that they are trying to close the deal BEFORE the profits fully develop! The MEC and NC are fully aware of the timing and implications of signing a deal that may not fully capture the ultimate profitability of the operation.
06-22-2022, 07:13 AM
#360
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2008
Position: 787 Captain
Posts: 1,512
[QUOTE=Mytime2025;3445543]
This TA will be the poster child for buyers remorse within 6months of approval. Profits will be off the charts as fuel prices crash and fares stay sky high. Oh sure we all will.get our little taxable profit sharing cupcake and think how great it is while we all march off to work like good little soldier's. Just remember people that make " real money" don't wear hats. And a P2P guy said don't expect anything until the fall and that was 5 days before the AIP. Just shows how in the know they are.
There are ways to capture the upside. I'll be looking for them in the TA.
If the P2P guy told you the fall he was off the reservation and outside of the scope of his P2P duty. The takeaway from P2P was simple...the company needs to see more progress towards profitability before they take the chance of putting enough cash on the table. They were close to taking that leap prior to the 2Q early reports.
This TA will be the poster child for buyers remorse within 6months of approval. Profits will be off the charts as fuel prices crash and fares stay sky high. Oh sure we all will.get our little taxable profit sharing cupcake and think how great it is while we all march off to work like good little soldier's. Just remember people that make " real money" don't wear hats. And a P2P guy said don't expect anything until the fall and that was 5 days before the AIP. Just shows how in the know they are.
If the P2P guy told you the fall he was off the reservation and outside of the scope of his P2P duty. The takeaway from P2P was simple...the company needs to see more progress towards profitability before they take the chance of putting enough cash on the table. They were close to taking that leap prior to the 2Q early reports.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
