oldmako

Not so fast. I'll be getting 300 dollars a month when I start collecting at age 64. If I delay it ten years it won't go to 400. If you think that's substantial, I'd like to know where you live.

Now to be fair, I did take a lump sum when I was on furlough because there was substantial doubt about ANY future payments back then. That did change the amount that I receive now, but not by MUCH. There was a clause for furloughed guys for some reason that I do not recall. Perhaps some other old guy can chime in on how much they're getting. Even so, that lump sum was only about 15K as I recall. Not exactly a windfall.

I was hired at 40, back when retirement was at 60. When they told me then how much I'd receive in pension payments with just 20 years on the property I was GIDDY. It was a hell of a lot more than 300 bucks a month. There is NOTHING wrong with a pension if it's structured properly and the company is not allowed to loot it. Now that labor has seen the steps that management has taken to rob them, that language could be iron clad. If I am not mistaken FedEx and UPS pilots both receive a pension in addition to their 401K plans.

Can someone verify that?

All anyone needs to know about pensions is that United convinced the judge that they could not afford a 400+ million pension deposit that was to occur on a specific date in the near future so the judge wiped it off the books. Yet, united managed to find almost that EXACT sum of money near that date for another purpose. They broke it up into "retention bonuses" which they doled out to the top 20 or 30 people in the company. I think it was called KERP for Key Employee Retention Plan.

And people wonder why the old guys are cranky.

BoilerUP

UPS and FDX each have a defined benefit plan and a defined contribution plan.

13n144e

You seem to be missing my point, or at lest skewing it somewhat. You can and should vote on the merits of a proposal (which we don’t know yet) but don’t expect us to get the same “new better deal at record speed” just because Delta got “$800 million more in short order”. That is naive. The contract and the conditions are different as will be management’s response.

gzsg

This time is completely different.

There is a massive pilot shortage and regional pilots are getting the same pay as our new hires. Their LCAs are making $427/hr.

Let management run the company. We are just pilots.

NuGuy

My guess is that you’re receiving that because the PBGC calculated that was your earned benefit. If you only had 4-5 years on the property when it was terminated, you only had 4-5 years vesting service at probably NB FO rates.

Someone who had the near maximum benefit at WB CA rates probably will get close to the PBGC maximum. That’s still a bad deal. But if you can design a DB plan to be at or near the PBGC coverage limits, you avoid taking a really bad haircut in a worst case scenario.

Mytime2025

Yes you are 100% correct. Pilots are not the brightest folks on the planet when it comes to basic math. Lets just assume the UNITED TA pay rates are 10.00 per hour above everybody in the industry. At 80hrs per month over 5 years that's 48K gross. FEDEX and UPS pilots will make that in 4 moths while playing golf or fishing ( retired). I'm tired of both the company and ALPA throwing around term like " industry leading. They either think the pilots are stupid enough to buy that BS or we actually are that stupid. Every contract needs to be valued in its entirety and on that measure FEDEX / UPS are in different galaxies. So for you math geniuses out there 48K is a much smaller number than 650K the amount those guys flying boxes make in 5 years doing nothing. ALPA needs to stop.with the industry leading BS.

Hedley

FedEx and UPS are also in different businesses, each capable of different revenue. Flying an airplane for a passenger airline will produce different results than flying an airplane for a shipping company. I’m not saying that we owe the company anything. An improved contract with improvements in pay and rules that exceeds inflation is long overdue. I just hope that if this thing does come up short that we vote it down, but I’m afraid that we have a bunch of people here who subscribe to the fresh turd in the hand is worth two on the ground mentality.

iahflyr

FedEx and UPS are in the Cargo industry. United is in the passenger airline industry. Two different industries. Cargo industry is making lots of money, and airline industry is losing money right now.

People in the same profession but in different industries are compensated differently. This is true in any profession. Lawyers who are public defenders make significantly less than corporate lawyers in tech. Finance majors who go work for Wall Street investment banks make significantly more than finance majors who go into accounting for a small business. Pay within a profession can be vastly different in different industries.

FedEx and UPS have pilot profession leading contracts.

After this TA, United will likely have a passenger airline industry leading contract. ALPA is not lying to you.

Mytime2025

[QUOTE=iahflyr;3443231]FedEx and UPS are in the Cargo industry. United is in the passenger airline industry. Two different industries. Cargo industry is making lots of money, and airline industry is losing money right now.

People in the same profession but in different industries are compensated differently. This is true in any profession. Lawyers who are public defenders make significantly less than corporate lawyers in tech. Finance majors who go work for Wall Street investment banks make significantly more than finance majors who go into accounting for a small business. Pay within a profession can be vastly different in different industries.

FedEx and UPS have pilot profession leading contracts.

After this TA, United will likely have a passenger airline industry leading contract. ALPA is not lying

That attitude is exactly why we get ****ty contracts. Bottom line we do the exact same job and are represented by the exact same union. The profit margins is a pure management function. And BTW the major airlines are NOW making record profits. So keep sipping that coolaide.If anything flying human beings around should pay better than cargo carriers but pilots living in the past is why we all get screwed.

RonRicco

[QUOTE=Mytime2025;3443258]I have to admit, I have not been paying that close attention to airline financials. Can you post the financial data comparison with regards to what constitutes the “record” when it comes to profits?