Raise with LOA expiring soon?
04-27-2022, 03:56 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2017
Posts: 149
Narrow body FO is only like $180k/yr with some longevity and we have lots of new guys making less. Don't cheat: 83 hrs x 12 x pay rate. The median will be less than the mean. This isn't a $250k/yr job. We get prole paychecks but aren't actually alpha enough to be considered blue collar. I'd say we need a contract except what's the point when we waive the good parts to get a line? What's the point when we pick-up weekends and holidays? I should have been a plumber. At least then I'd be the one raising my kid.
Agreed, Shoulda been a plumber for the kids sake. Been saying that for Years. Or an insurance guy. They make all the scratch. If only someone woulda told me that as a kid. Who knew? Lol!
Instead it’s funny to listen to folks, many of the 42% dissenters from the LOA think we shoulda been furloughed, twice at least as a right of passage. And worse so many are irritated at the significant movement. I think that’s a real crusty S&$* attitude.
Can we at least just mandate a retirement age for the flight attendants please? How about 70? Anyone?
04-27-2022, 05:23 AM
#62
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 963
Tech can't commute. We pretend we're high rollers commuting to lavish destinations (where do you summer?) but actually we commute to affordable housing whether by non-rev or driving two hours. There's no better witness to income than where you live. Pilots, especially junior ones (e.g. mid thirties to early forties on their third airline), can't afford to live where they work. Tech also pays less to 100% telecommuters. It's called off-shoring. We're cheap imported labor and we do what they tell us.
04-27-2022, 05:27 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 140
Tech can't commute. We pretend we're high rollers commuting to lavish destinations (where do you summer?) but actually we commute to affordable housing whether by non-rev or driving two hours. There's no better witness to income than where you live. Pilots, especially junior ones (e.g. mid thirties to early forties on their third airline), can't afford to live where they work. Tech also pays less to 100% telecommuters. It's called off-shoring. We're cheap imported labor and we do what they tell us.
04-27-2022, 05:55 AM
#64
weekends off? Nope...
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Posts: 2,018
While it's terrfic to see all the new hires coming in at record numbers, it all poses a bit of an issue when it comes contract talks. Many of our new folks are coming from regionals where the pay wasn't the best and qol was marginal at best. Now they get to united in a short amount of time compared to years past and are all starry eyed and excited, which is great.
However they might not feel the need for getting the best (highest) pay that we deserve. Getting to UAL for many people is "good enough" when it comes to career prospects and may not realize what us pilots can miss out on.
However they might not feel the need for getting the best (highest) pay that we deserve. Getting to UAL for many people is "good enough" when it comes to career prospects and may not realize what us pilots can miss out on.
04-27-2022, 06:06 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 140
04-27-2022, 07:05 AM
#67
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 737 fo
Posts: 908
I’m sorry, I just have to respond to this. Of course we always want more, more, more. I get that. But 16% DC is somewhere we are extremely well compensated.
In most other professional industries, we would be getting more like 4% DC and a 4% match. 16% DC is as generous as any industry ever gets.
If 16% DC isn’t enough, then you can contribute an extra $20,500 tax free into your 401k (plus an extra $6,500 a year once you hit age 50). Still not enough? Then save it post tax via other investments (stock, real estate, etc…). How bad must your financial management be that you can’t handle a 250k+ a year job and not save a little for retirement.
There are definitely things we should ask for in a new contract. Adding to 16% DC isn’t anywhere on the list.
In most other professional industries, we would be getting more like 4% DC and a 4% match. 16% DC is as generous as any industry ever gets.
If 16% DC isn’t enough, then you can contribute an extra $20,500 tax free into your 401k (plus an extra $6,500 a year once you hit age 50). Still not enough? Then save it post tax via other investments (stock, real estate, etc…). How bad must your financial management be that you can’t handle a 250k+ a year job and not save a little for retirement.
There are definitely things we should ask for in a new contract. Adding to 16% DC isn’t anywhere on the list.
16% of a shrinking dollar is not what it used to be just a year ago. Retirement improvements are definitely on the list.
04-27-2022, 01:34 PM
#68
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 867
Mgt. walks away with tens of millions when they leave after a few years. Scott & Co. will be no different. We are left holding the bag and scrambling to make ends meet. We can’t just work a little longer, or move on to the next airline like MGT. or other work groups do if things don’t work out and we don’t have enough saved.
Kirby will be succeeded by a Tilton who is brought in to clean up the mess that nobody could ever have seen coming (sarcasm intended).
Boom, Aviate, biggest and crappiest RJ operation, Asian flying that may never return to historical levels, subservient and compliant MEC leadership, poor product and a naive and untested majority in the pilot group are all headed toward a very predictable result.
Now, bring on the polyannas and apologists.
Last edited by Merle Haggard; 04-27-2022 at 02:03 PM.
04-27-2022, 03:51 PM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2022
Posts: 140
Kirby is running a huge grift. There's a steady stream of false, positive PR that everyone feeds on because they want to believe. Nobody ever goes back to demand accountability for all of the false positive information that repeatedly fails to pan out. Just see the predictions for the return of the 777 and the return of "normal" traffic and revenue that he has touted over and over for the last 2.5 years. Look at the utter debacle that is the current state of crew staffing. Do you honestly think that Carlson was great at his job just because he would answer pilot emails? He left with the staffing in complete shambles.
Kirby will be succeeded by a Tilton who is brought in to clean up the mess that nobody could ever have seen coming (sarcasm intended).
Boom, Aviate, biggest and crappiest RJ operation, Asian flying that may never return to historical levels, subservient and compliant MEC leadership, poor product and a naive and untested majority in the pilot group are all headed toward a very predictable result.
Now, bring on the polyannas and apologists.
Kirby will be succeeded by a Tilton who is brought in to clean up the mess that nobody could ever have seen coming (sarcasm intended).
Boom, Aviate, biggest and crappiest RJ operation, Asian flying that may never return to historical levels, subservient and compliant MEC leadership, poor product and a naive and untested majority in the pilot group are all headed toward a very predictable result.
Now, bring on the polyannas and apologists.
Not saying all of that would save us, but it could lessen the blow. So maybe you're right in that they've put on a good show to make everyone overlook the mistakes, but maybe we have enough tailwinds.
I like to be an optimist like Thomas Jefferson said...or was it Churchill?
Last edited by Fat Old Tired; 04-27-2022 at 04:02 PM.
04-28-2022, 03:18 AM
#70
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 867
I’m sorry, I just have to respond to this. Of course we always want more, more, more. I get that. But 16% DC is somewhere we are extremely well compensated.
In most other professional industries, we would be getting more like 4% DC and a 4% match. 16% DC is as generous as any industry ever gets.
If 16% DC isn’t enough, then you can contribute an extra $20,500 tax free into your 401k (plus an extra $6,500 a year once you hit age 50). Still not enough? Then save it post tax via other investments (stock, real estate, etc…). How bad must your financial management be that you can’t handle a 250k+ a year job and not save a little for retirement.
There are definitely things we should ask for in a new contract. Adding to 16% DC isn’t anywhere on the list.
In most other professional industries, we would be getting more like 4% DC and a 4% match. 16% DC is as generous as any industry ever gets.
If 16% DC isn’t enough, then you can contribute an extra $20,500 tax free into your 401k (plus an extra $6,500 a year once you hit age 50). Still not enough? Then save it post tax via other investments (stock, real estate, etc…). How bad must your financial management be that you can’t handle a 250k+ a year job and not save a little for retirement.
There are definitely things we should ask for in a new contract. Adding to 16% DC isn’t anywhere on the list.
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