767-400 777 Pratt. Rumors
03-24-2021, 08:22 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
I would love to know more about how the mafia works.....
Do they have an insider person in scheduling or in Tech Ops, or TOMC?
Are they able to see the MX flow and anticipated RTS by Tech Ops?
Do they have access to the subcontractors' work-flow and assignment schedule or data base?
Do they have an insider person in scheduling or in Tech Ops, or TOMC?
Are they able to see the MX flow and anticipated RTS by Tech Ops?
Do they have access to the subcontractors' work-flow and assignment schedule or data base?
However, with the advent of seniority based trading the only real advantage is knowing when to drop trips so it's easier to pick other stuff up. Without seniority it can be a risky maneuver, however. Also, and In all seriousness, there are a couple of MX guys that post in the UAL fleet thread on airlinersdotnet that often provide a public heads up to anybody paying attention. "Ship 6669 is planned for HMV next week in HKG..."
03-24-2021, 08:42 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 432
The only way you’re going to stop the HKG MX abuse is doing them at any other domicile than EWR and running it during a seniority trade window like we’ve seen recently out of ORD.
They were damn near shut down last year when most of the trips went to SFO in late fall to early December of 2019. One FO in SFO got 3 of them in one month and it was all seniority trades. No gamesmanship. It’s when they drop them at 2AM in real time window that the monkey business happens regardless of domicile.
They were damn near shut down last year when most of the trips went to SFO in late fall to early December of 2019. One FO in SFO got 3 of them in one month and it was all seniority trades. No gamesmanship. It’s when they drop them at 2AM in real time window that the monkey business happens regardless of domicile.
03-24-2021, 10:42 AM
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
Wanted to add to the discussion as I was involved with one of these "shady" trips a few years back.
In my case, I saw the trip in Open Time for the next day, for a few minutes but then it disappeared. But it was still in Pairing Info and so I had STT set up for it. Interestingly, it had 3 FO's?!
Watched, called, PDR'd.. all day long. In the evening (trip was going out the next day) all of a sudden 2 of the 3 FO positions are filled by individuals. One open?!
Had to call to get it. - Got It.
A short while later, get the call that they didn't need the "extra" FO.
Confirmed to them that I was pay protected. They seemed annoyed but I was, with AV days.
Sometime afterwards I heard from the current C5 Chair that I should attend the local council meeting and bring up my issue.
I did.
Here is what is interesting to me-
At the meeting, it was mentioned that I was pay protected and that my PDR and email had resulted in a Captain getting Pay Protected without him being aware he missed the trip. Hmmm..
Then, the Vice Chair of C5 (not the current one) told everyone present that there was a BACK DOOR that some of these individuals used but it was being Closed!
I asked that the "Back Door" be communicated to the pilot group and was told NO.
It was being Closed and wouldn't be an issue going forward. Same with who got these trips and when.
Well, guess it's still an issue.
Back in the day, the CAL Mafia was a known group that scored these high paying trips. ALPA and Company "looked into it" but nothing ever came of it.
Company doesn't really care as long as the flying gets covered. Same seems to be said about the union.
Sure, there is a way using SSD and the Internet to see when a/c are coming or going. But still requires you to be able to change YOUR schedule and then HOPE you get the good deal. Once or twice in a year.. ok, Lucky. Coincidence.
But when the SAME names pop up constantly you have to wonder what is going on.
Always
Motch
FS, FP & FtC
In my case, I saw the trip in Open Time for the next day, for a few minutes but then it disappeared. But it was still in Pairing Info and so I had STT set up for it. Interestingly, it had 3 FO's?!
Watched, called, PDR'd.. all day long. In the evening (trip was going out the next day) all of a sudden 2 of the 3 FO positions are filled by individuals. One open?!
Had to call to get it. - Got It.
A short while later, get the call that they didn't need the "extra" FO.
Confirmed to them that I was pay protected. They seemed annoyed but I was, with AV days.
Sometime afterwards I heard from the current C5 Chair that I should attend the local council meeting and bring up my issue.
I did.
Here is what is interesting to me-
At the meeting, it was mentioned that I was pay protected and that my PDR and email had resulted in a Captain getting Pay Protected without him being aware he missed the trip. Hmmm..
Then, the Vice Chair of C5 (not the current one) told everyone present that there was a BACK DOOR that some of these individuals used but it was being Closed!
I asked that the "Back Door" be communicated to the pilot group and was told NO.
It was being Closed and wouldn't be an issue going forward. Same with who got these trips and when.
Well, guess it's still an issue.
Back in the day, the CAL Mafia was a known group that scored these high paying trips. ALPA and Company "looked into it" but nothing ever came of it.
Company doesn't really care as long as the flying gets covered. Same seems to be said about the union.
Sure, there is a way using SSD and the Internet to see when a/c are coming or going. But still requires you to be able to change YOUR schedule and then HOPE you get the good deal. Once or twice in a year.. ok, Lucky. Coincidence.
But when the SAME names pop up constantly you have to wonder what is going on.
Always
Motch
FS, FP & FtC
03-24-2021, 03:27 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 472
I remember years ago I was sitting on the couch w my wife. I used the computer to call in sick for a trip the next day. It was a Zurich 3 day and highly sought after at the time. Low and behold a few seconds later a very junior FO from the mafia list was on it. I told my wife to watch in a few seconds this name will pop up. low and behold I was rite!
to thwart these a holes I would call a friend and let them know I’m about to call in sick and then they would get on the phone w scheduling. I loved it when we would subvert these dorks.
From what I was told at that time they paid upwards of 10k to join. The program would access shares a second or two before those of us regular folks on ccs and they would always get first dibs. Total bull$h1t! Like everyone here is saying the company didn’t care and neither did the union...sadly!
I was elated when seniority trip trade was finally implemented. So now these goons are back at it? I hope it’s different this time
and they get caught and fired!
to thwart these a holes I would call a friend and let them know I’m about to call in sick and then they would get on the phone w scheduling. I loved it when we would subvert these dorks.
From what I was told at that time they paid upwards of 10k to join. The program would access shares a second or two before those of us regular folks on ccs and they would always get first dibs. Total bull$h1t! Like everyone here is saying the company didn’t care and neither did the union...sadly!
I was elated when seniority trip trade was finally implemented. So now these goons are back at it? I hope it’s different this time
and they get caught and fired!
03-24-2021, 03:57 PM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2015
Position: Captain
Posts: 1,561
I remember years ago I was sitting on the couch w my wife. I used the computer to call in sick for a trip the next day. It was a Zurich 3 day and highly sought after at the time. Low and behold a few seconds later a very junior FO from the mafia list was on it. I told my wife to watch in a few seconds this name will pop up. low and behold I was rite!
to thwart these a holes I would call a friend and let them know I’m about to call in sick and then they would get on the phone w scheduling. I loved it when we would subvert these dorks.
From what I was told at that time they paid upwards of 10k to join. The program would access shares a second or two before those of us regular folks on ccs and they would always get first dibs. Total bull$h1t! Like everyone here is saying the company didn’t care and neither did the union...sadly!
I was elated when seniority trip trade was finally implemented. So now these goons are back at it? I hope it’s different this time
and they get caught and fired!
to thwart these a holes I would call a friend and let them know I’m about to call in sick and then they would get on the phone w scheduling. I loved it when we would subvert these dorks.
From what I was told at that time they paid upwards of 10k to join. The program would access shares a second or two before those of us regular folks on ccs and they would always get first dibs. Total bull$h1t! Like everyone here is saying the company didn’t care and neither did the union...sadly!
I was elated when seniority trip trade was finally implemented. So now these goons are back at it? I hope it’s different this time
and they get caught and fired!
they should be fired
i agree
03-25-2021, 01:31 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Head pillow fluffer, Assistant bed maker
Posts: 1,315
I'm sitting here in SFO looking at 767-400, #052 at gate G4. No idea where it's going. Possibly a MX ferry flt.
Years ago ALPA and the company reached an agreement regarding these MX ferry flts. ALPA still maintains that line pilots should be flying these. They are current and qualified. However, the company and TK wants the flt test guys to do them, not sure why.
The contract is pretty specific in this instance. Line pilots should be flying them. So, the company agreed to build the trips, put them in open flying for pickup. Then anyone awarded, would be FBO'd and the test guys would do the trip. The company, as in many crew desk areas, is abusing the system. They put it in open flying for a few minutes, and build the trips at the last second. It also has the effect of blocking the EWR 767 mafia from abusing the pickup system.
Years ago ALPA and the company reached an agreement regarding these MX ferry flts. ALPA still maintains that line pilots should be flying these. They are current and qualified. However, the company and TK wants the flt test guys to do them, not sure why.
The contract is pretty specific in this instance. Line pilots should be flying them. So, the company agreed to build the trips, put them in open flying for pickup. Then anyone awarded, would be FBO'd and the test guys would do the trip. The company, as in many crew desk areas, is abusing the system. They put it in open flying for a few minutes, and build the trips at the last second. It also has the effect of blocking the EWR 767 mafia from abusing the pickup system.
03-26-2021, 09:53 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 459
I managed to snag a DH to HGK to ferry a 764 back to HNL then DH home one time. It was when Bowers was publishing the times the trips would be built (or the window, can't remember). Anyway, I got the IRO position, while one of the mafia guys gets the FO position as I of course wasn't fast enough for that.
At the gate a few days later, the mafia dude comes up to me and says (albeit in a joking, lighthearted manner), "XXXX (another mafia member) wanted me to tell you the only reason you got this trip was he was on vacation." Nice.
While DHing to HKG and being CAL we weren't guaranteed first class, but we did get the 50% add pay for deadheading in middle seat coach at the time. Well this dude doesn't get upgraded and sits in a middle seat in the back while the CA and I upgrade to BF. He then asks if we can swap out so he can get out of the middle seat for a bit. AYFKM? Getting 8hrs of add pay and wants my seat, too?
At the gate a few days later, the mafia dude comes up to me and says (albeit in a joking, lighthearted manner), "XXXX (another mafia member) wanted me to tell you the only reason you got this trip was he was on vacation." Nice.
While DHing to HKG and being CAL we weren't guaranteed first class, but we did get the 50% add pay for deadheading in middle seat coach at the time. Well this dude doesn't get upgraded and sits in a middle seat in the back while the CA and I upgrade to BF. He then asks if we can swap out so he can get out of the middle seat for a bit. AYFKM? Getting 8hrs of add pay and wants my seat, too?
03-26-2021, 03:22 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
While DHing to HKG and being CAL we weren't guaranteed first class, but we did get the 50% add pay for deadheading in middle seat coach at the time. Well this dude doesn't get upgraded and sits in a middle seat in the back while the CA and I upgrade to BF. He then asks if we can swap out so he can get out of the middle seat for a bit. AYFKM? Getting 8hrs of add pay and wants my seat, too?
03-26-2021, 07:32 PM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Head pillow fluffer, Assistant bed maker
Posts: 1,315
I managed to snag a DH to HGK to ferry a 764 back to HNL then DH home one time. It was when Bowers was publishing the times the trips would be built (or the window, can't remember). Anyway, I got the IRO position, while one of the mafia guys gets the FO position as I of course wasn't fast enough for that.
At the gate a few days later, the mafia dude comes up to me and says (albeit in a joking, lighthearted manner), "XXXX (another mafia member) wanted me to tell you the only reason you got this trip was he was on vacation." Nice.
While DHing to HKG and being CAL we weren't guaranteed first class, but we did get the 50% add pay for deadheading in middle seat coach at the time. Well this dude doesn't get upgraded and sits in a middle seat in the back while the CA and I upgrade to BF. He then asks if we can swap out so he can get out of the middle seat for a bit. AYFKM? Getting 8hrs of add pay and wants my seat, too?
At the gate a few days later, the mafia dude comes up to me and says (albeit in a joking, lighthearted manner), "XXXX (another mafia member) wanted me to tell you the only reason you got this trip was he was on vacation." Nice.
While DHing to HKG and being CAL we weren't guaranteed first class, but we did get the 50% add pay for deadheading in middle seat coach at the time. Well this dude doesn't get upgraded and sits in a middle seat in the back while the CA and I upgrade to BF. He then asks if we can swap out so he can get out of the middle seat for a bit. AYFKM? Getting 8hrs of add pay and wants my seat, too?
03-27-2021, 05:01 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: 756 left...
Posts: 472
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