Loa 27
09-19-2020, 04:10 PM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 164
The company states “ we need x amount of pilots to fly the schedule”. But we agree to fly the schedule with a greater amount of x. Someone has to pay that cost difference. Guess who it is? You can try and justify it by saying, “ we will be ready to pounce when Covid goes away”. Good luck with that. If Kirby was so sure, he wouldn’t need to furlough at all.
09-19-2020, 04:16 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,871
What are you ”buying” with your TA by accepting or rejecting it? Try to really answer for yourself without looking at the answer key below. C’mon man, don’t peek yet (Joe Biden). Let me touch your hair (ok, just had to add that it has nothing to do with this but wink wink we all know what it means when old Joe says it)
What are you getting as a group in return for your money? Some of you think that it’s jobs or juniors. Really, do you think that’s what you’re buying? It’s a nice consequence but no. That’s not what you are buying. Financially, if your bottom 3-5k had no jobs for about the next 6-8 months. In fact, I’d greatly prefer they didn’t get paid, only from a purely financial standpoint. It’s nice to have happy employees too, but not at that massive cost.
What you are buying, because really you are considering “buying” something. What’s the real carrot for you?:
1. Seniority - or at least retained seniority. Thousands of seniority numbers for yourself in functional terms. What would you pay to go up 5k? That’s not perfect, but what would you pay not to drop 5k? That’s not perfect either. How bout this – what would you pay to be #8000 of 8000 pilots with no pay rate protection vs #7400 of 13000 with some of you getting some pay rate protection. Assuming 5k furlough and 600 EO. What’s really crummy is being #8001 of 8000 on your list. How much would you pay for that? Everyone’s answer is different I guess, and none are wrong, even $0.
You get a whole slew of other benefits too, but that’s the big one you’re buying. You are buying your pay/seniority going forward. One of the two (or both) is going down one way or another no matter what. I could even make the case that the junior guy is buying your higher seniority rise with his greater % income loss. It’s incorrect, but less incorrect than you thinking you’re subsidizing his junior job. Some big holes in my argument by the core is correct. I know it’ll still anger some of you to hear. If you get all blocked up about it we can send some granola bars. You're only subsidizing yourself.
What are you getting as a group in return for your money? Some of you think that it’s jobs or juniors. Really, do you think that’s what you’re buying? It’s a nice consequence but no. That’s not what you are buying. Financially, if your bottom 3-5k had no jobs for about the next 6-8 months. In fact, I’d greatly prefer they didn’t get paid, only from a purely financial standpoint. It’s nice to have happy employees too, but not at that massive cost.
What you are buying, because really you are considering “buying” something. What’s the real carrot for you?:
1. Seniority - or at least retained seniority. Thousands of seniority numbers for yourself in functional terms. What would you pay to go up 5k? That’s not perfect, but what would you pay not to drop 5k? That’s not perfect either. How bout this – what would you pay to be #8000 of 8000 pilots with no pay rate protection vs #7400 of 13000 with some of you getting some pay rate protection. Assuming 5k furlough and 600 EO. What’s really crummy is being #8001 of 8000 on your list. How much would you pay for that? Everyone’s answer is different I guess, and none are wrong, even $0.
You get a whole slew of other benefits too, but that’s the big one you’re buying. You are buying your pay/seniority going forward. One of the two (or both) is going down one way or another no matter what. I could even make the case that the junior guy is buying your higher seniority rise with his greater % income loss. It’s incorrect, but less incorrect than you thinking you’re subsidizing his junior job. Some big holes in my argument by the core is correct. I know it’ll still anger some of you to hear. If you get all blocked up about it we can send some granola bars. You're only subsidizing yourself.
09-19-2020, 07:06 PM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 2,348
Let me guess..... You are at the end of your career, fairly senior in your seat, not displaced, not interested in an early out, and focused only on maximizing your pay for the next 2 years. Is that a close description ? You are on a crusade over this. How about calmly discussing the data here and letting people decide for themselves?
09-19-2020, 07:51 PM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 164
Let me guess..... You are at the end of your career, fairly senior in your seat, not displaced, not interested in an early out, and focused only on maximizing your pay for the next 2 years. Is that a close description ? You are on a crusade over this. How about calmly discussing the data here and letting people decide for themselves?
09-19-2020, 07:55 PM
#18
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 13
What are you ”buying” with your TA by accepting or rejecting it? Try to really answer for yourself without looking at the answer key below. C’mon man, don’t peek yet (Joe Biden). Let me touch your hair (ok, just had to add that it has nothing to do with this but wink wink we all know what it means when old Joe says it)
What are you getting as a group in return for your money? Some of you think that it’s jobs or juniors. Really, do you think that’s what you’re buying? It’s a nice consequence but no. That’s not what you are buying. Financially, if your bottom 3-5k had no jobs for about the next 6-8 months. In fact, I’d greatly prefer they didn’t get paid, only from a purely financial standpoint. It’s nice to have happy employees too, but not at that massive cost.
What you are buying, because really you are considering “buying” something. What’s the real carrot for you?:
1. Seniority - or at least retained seniority. Thousands of seniority numbers for yourself in functional terms. What would you pay to go up 5k? That’s not perfect, but what would you pay not to drop 5k? That’s not perfect either. How bout this – what would you pay to be #8000 of 8000 pilots with no pay rate protection vs #7400 of 13000 with some of you getting some pay rate protection. Assuming 5k furlough and 600 EO. What’s really crummy is being #8001 of 8000 on your list. How much would you pay for that? Everyone’s answer is different I guess, and none are wrong, even $0.
You get a whole slew of other benefits too, but that’s the big one you’re buying. You are buying your pay/seniority going forward. One of the two (or both) is going down one way or another no matter what. I could even make the case that the junior guy is buying your higher seniority rise with his greater % income loss. It’s incorrect, but less incorrect than you thinking you’re subsidizing his junior job. Some big holes in my argument by the core is correct. I know it’ll still anger some of you to hear. If you get all blocked up about it we can send some granola bars. You're only subsidizing yourself.
What are you getting as a group in return for your money? Some of you think that it’s jobs or juniors. Really, do you think that’s what you’re buying? It’s a nice consequence but no. That’s not what you are buying. Financially, if your bottom 3-5k had no jobs for about the next 6-8 months. In fact, I’d greatly prefer they didn’t get paid, only from a purely financial standpoint. It’s nice to have happy employees too, but not at that massive cost.
What you are buying, because really you are considering “buying” something. What’s the real carrot for you?:
1. Seniority - or at least retained seniority. Thousands of seniority numbers for yourself in functional terms. What would you pay to go up 5k? That’s not perfect, but what would you pay not to drop 5k? That’s not perfect either. How bout this – what would you pay to be #8000 of 8000 pilots with no pay rate protection vs #7400 of 13000 with some of you getting some pay rate protection. Assuming 5k furlough and 600 EO. What’s really crummy is being #8001 of 8000 on your list. How much would you pay for that? Everyone’s answer is different I guess, and none are wrong, even $0.
You get a whole slew of other benefits too, but that’s the big one you’re buying. You are buying your pay/seniority going forward. One of the two (or both) is going down one way or another no matter what. I could even make the case that the junior guy is buying your higher seniority rise with his greater % income loss. It’s incorrect, but less incorrect than you thinking you’re subsidizing his junior job. Some big holes in my argument by the core is correct. I know it’ll still anger some of you to hear. If you get all blocked up about it we can send some granola bars. You're only subsidizing yourself.
09-19-2020, 08:04 PM
#19
Orbis Non Sufficit
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 741
Seriously, I’m gonna lobby the MEC to include a little check box on the “NO” voting page that says “I am voting no simply because someone else is getting something I’m not getting”. Just so we can keep track of how many we have here with kindergarten sandbox mentalities.
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