Originally Posted by AxlF16

Fortunately for us t's more complicated than this. Unlike most other areas of AI and automation, failure here will be spectacular...and deadly. As another poster alluded, you also need major advances in datalink waveforms or bandwidth. Even the USAF can't provide all required bandwidth organically - and they own and operate leading edge space based comm. Then - even if you solve the 'throughput' problem you still have to make it secure. Not just secure like your facebook password, but REAL security. Another poster did a fine job explaining the basics of what that means. When you even get to this point, you need redundancy for normal material and infrastructure failures. Now tell me WHO is going to pay for this? The cost to build and operate the required infrastructure will be staggering. I know that we make good money, but I don't think you'll find any cost savings for a very long time.


The lessons learned from US military UAS/RPA are instructive. The control systems and communication/control links are arguably more important the the technology in the aircraft. In my experience the systems lacked adequate operational redundancy and flexibility for commercial operations.


Based on my 121 and military experience I think that introducing these systems into the airspace will only slow things down and reduce capacity. Ask yourself how many times you've saved a go around by having the preceding aircraft in sight. How many more aircraft can arrive under 'visual' conditions - and how much do airports rely on that capacity?


I'll believe it's coming when I see more efficiency & no mistakes from ATC, when I see no ACARS, WiFi, & CCS failures, and when I see no Jepp Database or aircraft systems malfunctions.


In other words - I don't expect to see this in my career, or even my lifetime. FWIW I'm 53 years old.

Originally Posted by Rotorover

Axl, you're exactly right. I was an Air Force UAS pilot during my furloughs and my take is that the military will soon conquer the dreaded "see and avoid" problem that has plagued the UAS industry with a "sense and avoid" technology. At that point UAS will be safer than manned aircraft as far as ability to avoid mid air collisions. The FAA will then allow UAS routine access to the NAS and the civilian market will explode. Bandwidth is the most critical issue that will prevent the airline industry from going pilotless. There is not enough of it for the public and government to rationalize and accept giving all of it to the airline industry (yes,maintaining a link to every airliner out there would take every bit of it). Military, CBP, local law enforcement, Dept of Forestry, Amazon, CNN, Verizon, etc. will all claim a need for bandwidth and will have priority. What's left will certainly not be used by the passenger industry. It will take a monumental leap in technology to increase available bandwidth before our jobs are threatened. That being said, overseas cargo industry may well be going pilotless within our career time frame, and the First Officer may go the way of the Second Officer. For what it's worth, every single Global Hawk landing I ever saw was as good as my best landing and it never had a bad landing. I, on the other hand...

Originally Posted by MagooFlew

Dont forget, beyond the existing UAS example, the DOD’s official multi-year foray into this topic recently concluded with the ALIAS system field tests by DARPA on the major weapon systems (essentially your standard R2D2), which stopped short of fully automating anything. It’s a stepping stone but the researchers acknowledged the hurdles of “pilotless” were not even worth pursuing at this point. So I don’t lose sleep at night. As long as they wait until we’re all old enough to rate a robot FO, I wouldn’t mind, as long as it laughs at my jokes and doesn’t drink all the coffee without starting another pot. You know, the basics.

Originally Posted by Rotorover

Axl, you're exactly right. I was an Air Force UAS pilot during my furloughs and my take is that the military will soon conquer the dreaded "see and avoid" problem that has plagued the UAS industry with a "sense and avoid" technology. At that point UAS will be safer than manned aircraft as far as ability to avoid mid air collisions. The FAA will then allow UAS routine access to the NAS and the civilian market will explode. Bandwidth is the most critical issue that will prevent the airline industry from going pilotless. There is not enough of it for the public and government to rationalize and accept giving all of it to the airline industry (yes,maintaining a link to every airliner out there would take every bit of it). Military, CBP, local law enforcement, Dept of Forestry, Amazon, CNN, Verizon, etc. will all claim a need for bandwidth and will have priority. What's left will certainly not be used by the passenger industry. It will take a monumental leap in technology to increase available bandwidth before our jobs are threatened. That being said, overseas cargo industry may well be going pilotless within our career time frame, and the First Officer may go the way of the Second Officer. For what it's worth, every single Global Hawk landing I ever saw was as good as my best landing and it never had a bad landing. I, on the other hand...

Originally Posted by AllYourBaseAreB

ATL will have to change their SOPs. Countless GS anomalies caused by crossing A/C. Especially heavies from the hangars crossing the southern runway.

Also bad in BOS and PHL

Originally Posted by havick206

Don’t forget at LGA (from memory RWY04?), in the notes on Jepps it states the ILS to be hand flown. Presumably from the full scale deflection side to side as the MTA bus drives past the threshold.

Originally Posted by USMCFLYR

Uhhhhhh.......no )

"COUPLED APPROACH N/A" NOTE ON THE APPROACH PLATE SHOULD REMAIN DUE TO THIS FACILITY'S SENSITIVITY TO TIDE HEIGHT. THIS SENSITIVITY CAUSES INTERMITTENT LOW AMPLITUDE, HIGH FREQUENCY RIPPLE ON THE LOCALIZER CROSS POINTER WHICH GENERATES AUTOPILOT ISSUES AND USER COMPLAINTS. ENGINEERING CONTINUES TO WORK ON A RESOLUTION."

Now the facility is restricted "LOC UNUSABLE BYD 20 DEG LEFT OF COURSE" due to continued OT Modulations, but that isn't gong to causes +150 to -150 needle swings. Not I'm not sure how that 'high frequency ripple' would present. Maybe that is the cause of the fluctuations that you have heard about in the past.

It is amazing the folklore that is out there about different approaches and such.

Originally Posted by Rotorover

Axl, you're exactly right. I was an Air Force UAS pilot during my furloughs and my take is that the military will soon conquer the dreaded "see and avoid" problem that has plagued the UAS industry with a "sense and avoid" technology. At that point UAS will be safer than manned aircraft as far as ability to avoid mid air collisions. The FAA will then allow UAS routine access to the NAS and the civilian market will explode. Bandwidth is the most critical issue that will prevent the airline industry from going pilotless. There is not enough of it for the public and government to rationalize and accept giving all of it to the airline industry (yes,maintaining a link to every airliner out there would take every bit of it). Military, CBP, local law enforcement, Dept of Forestry, Amazon, CNN, Verizon, etc. will all claim a need for bandwidth and will have priority. What's left will certainly not be used by the passenger industry. It will take a monumental leap in technology to increase available bandwidth before our jobs are threatened. That being said, overseas cargo industry may well be going pilotless within our career time frame, and the First Officer may go the way of the Second Officer. For what it's worth, every single Global Hawk landing I ever saw was as good as my best landing and it never had a bad landing. I, on the other hand...

Originally Posted by Huell

... and I always thought it was due to coriolus effect ... Lear something every day.

Originally Posted by Triggs

The scary ones are the drones that can identify a specific target (human in the case of the one my friend was working with) and track said target through urban or wooded areas using LIDAR (no GPS)