More COVID Casualties
07-29-2020, 06:22 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
As a former Skypest guy, I never quite understood this. In most union trades, the point of a “union wage” was to prevent unskilled Joe-Shmoes from watering down the going rate for a service (among other things).
so when you have an airline like Skywest with better work rules and pay than most union carriers, it sounds more like ALPA has done a good job convincing people that nobody should exist outside their purview. That is to say, if Skywest operated like a Colgan and was able to get flying because the pilots viewed it is a stepping stone and accepted cut rate pay for quick upgrades, I would say that is a complete abrogation of a union trade and ALPA should address that. Ultimately, ALPA and pilot groups should be more concerned with the atrocious work rules and pay that exist within their own union sanctioned pilot groups before attacking a pilot group that has achieved results without a union.
to be VERY clear, I’m very glad to be working for a union shop and always take the time to express that to nonunion pilots. But I really do not think SkyWest is the problem with this model… The fact that there is no published minimum wage and that union carriers undercut each other with terrible contracts seems like a much bigger issue to focus on. So, Hypothetically, if you were furloughed and given a choice between working for Mesa or SkyWest… I think almost everyone knows what the answer would be. If that isn’t indicative of some thing, I don’t know what is
so when you have an airline like Skywest with better work rules and pay than most union carriers, it sounds more like ALPA has done a good job convincing people that nobody should exist outside their purview. That is to say, if Skywest operated like a Colgan and was able to get flying because the pilots viewed it is a stepping stone and accepted cut rate pay for quick upgrades, I would say that is a complete abrogation of a union trade and ALPA should address that. Ultimately, ALPA and pilot groups should be more concerned with the atrocious work rules and pay that exist within their own union sanctioned pilot groups before attacking a pilot group that has achieved results without a union.
to be VERY clear, I’m very glad to be working for a union shop and always take the time to express that to nonunion pilots. But I really do not think SkyWest is the problem with this model… The fact that there is no published minimum wage and that union carriers undercut each other with terrible contracts seems like a much bigger issue to focus on. So, Hypothetically, if you were furloughed and given a choice between working for Mesa or SkyWest… I think almost everyone knows what the answer would be. If that isn’t indicative of some thing, I don’t know what is
07-29-2020, 06:41 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: Boeing 737 FO
Posts: 125
As a former Skypest guy, I never quite understood this. In most union trades, the point of a “union wage” was to prevent unskilled Joe-Shmoes from watering down the going rate for a service (among other things).
so when you have an airline like Skywest with better work rules and pay than most union carriers, it sounds more like ALPA has done a good job convincing people that nobody should exist outside their purview. That is to say, if Skywest operated like a Colgan and was able to get flying because the pilots viewed it is a stepping stone and accepted cut rate pay for quick upgrades, I would say that is a complete abrogation of a union trade and ALPA should address that. Ultimately, ALPA and pilot groups should be more concerned with the atrocious work rules and pay that exist within their own union sanctioned pilot groups before attacking a pilot group that has achieved results without a union.
to be VERY clear, I’m very glad to be working for a union shop and always take the time to express that to nonunion pilots. But I really do not think SkyWest is the problem with this model… The fact that there is no published minimum wage and that union carriers undercut each other with terrible contracts seems like a much bigger issue to focus on. So, Hypothetically, if you were furloughed and given a choice between working for Mesa or SkyWest… I think almost everyone knows what the answer would be. If that isn’t indicative of some thing, I don’t know what is
so when you have an airline like Skywest with better work rules and pay than most union carriers, it sounds more like ALPA has done a good job convincing people that nobody should exist outside their purview. That is to say, if Skywest operated like a Colgan and was able to get flying because the pilots viewed it is a stepping stone and accepted cut rate pay for quick upgrades, I would say that is a complete abrogation of a union trade and ALPA should address that. Ultimately, ALPA and pilot groups should be more concerned with the atrocious work rules and pay that exist within their own union sanctioned pilot groups before attacking a pilot group that has achieved results without a union.
to be VERY clear, I’m very glad to be working for a union shop and always take the time to express that to nonunion pilots. But I really do not think SkyWest is the problem with this model… The fact that there is no published minimum wage and that union carriers undercut each other with terrible contracts seems like a much bigger issue to focus on. So, Hypothetically, if you were furloughed and given a choice between working for Mesa or SkyWest… I think almost everyone knows what the answer would be. If that isn’t indicative of some thing, I don’t know what is
[img]blob:https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/fe0ed37c-cdc5-4550-aaa9-7c272bdbec66[/img]
07-29-2020, 06:50 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 269
This will not be popular, but here it goes. SkyWest is not the problem. ALPA is the problem. This is coming from a career long ALPA pilot. It is flawed at the regional level and SkyWest management has been smart enough to capitalize on that.
When every regional ALPA carrier is individually faced with racing to the bottom, and their very own MECs negotiate contracts that undercut each other, then ALPA national has failed on a massive level. It was beyond frustrating to watch during my time in the regionals.
When every regional ALPA carrier is individually faced with racing to the bottom, and their very own MECs negotiate contracts that undercut each other, then ALPA national has failed on a massive level. It was beyond frustrating to watch during my time in the regionals.
07-29-2020, 07:36 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Seat 0B
Posts: 2,300
This will not be popular, but here it goes. SkyWest is not the problem. ALPA is the problem. This is coming from a career long ALPA pilot. It is flawed at the regional level and SkyWest management has been smart enough to capitalize on that.
When every regional ALPA carrier is individually faced with racing to the bottom, and their very own MECs negotiate contracts that undercut each other, then ALPA national has failed on a massive level. It was beyond frustrating to watch during my time in the regionals.
When every regional ALPA carrier is individually faced with racing to the bottom, and their very own MECs negotiate contracts that undercut each other, then ALPA national has failed on a massive level. It was beyond frustrating to watch during my time in the regionals.
07-29-2020, 07:40 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: Seat 0B
Posts: 2,300
As a former Skypest guy, I never quite understood this. In most union trades, the point of a “union wage” was to prevent unskilled Joe-Shmoes from watering down the going rate for a service (among other things).
so when you have an airline like Skywest with better work rules and pay than most union carriers, it sounds more like ALPA has done a good job convincing people that nobody should exist outside their purview. That is to say, if Skywest operated like a Colgan and was able to get flying because the pilots viewed it is a stepping stone and accepted cut rate pay for quick upgrades, I would say that is a complete abrogation of a union trade and ALPA should address that. Ultimately, ALPA and pilot groups should be more concerned with the atrocious work rules and pay that exist within their own union sanctioned pilot groups before attacking a pilot group that has achieved results without a union.
to be VERY clear, I’m very glad to be working for a union shop and always take the time to express that to nonunion pilots. But I really do not think SkyWest is the problem with this model… The fact that there is no published minimum wage and that union carriers undercut each other with terrible contracts seems like a much bigger issue to focus on. So, Hypothetically, if you were furloughed and given a choice between working for Mesa or SkyWest… I think almost everyone knows what the answer would be. If that isn’t indicative of some thing, I don’t know what is
so when you have an airline like Skywest with better work rules and pay than most union carriers, it sounds more like ALPA has done a good job convincing people that nobody should exist outside their purview. That is to say, if Skywest operated like a Colgan and was able to get flying because the pilots viewed it is a stepping stone and accepted cut rate pay for quick upgrades, I would say that is a complete abrogation of a union trade and ALPA should address that. Ultimately, ALPA and pilot groups should be more concerned with the atrocious work rules and pay that exist within their own union sanctioned pilot groups before attacking a pilot group that has achieved results without a union.
to be VERY clear, I’m very glad to be working for a union shop and always take the time to express that to nonunion pilots. But I really do not think SkyWest is the problem with this model… The fact that there is no published minimum wage and that union carriers undercut each other with terrible contracts seems like a much bigger issue to focus on. So, Hypothetically, if you were furloughed and given a choice between working for Mesa or SkyWest… I think almost everyone knows what the answer would be. If that isn’t indicative of some thing, I don’t know what is
07-29-2020, 08:03 AM
#20
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Posts: 43
Skywest would not be a relatively good place to work if it wasn't for ALPA. Skywest management is sharing a small part of the non-union premium with their pilots...the non-union workforce at Delta is in a similar situation and have other airline's unions to thank....
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