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Old 05-29-2020, 07:12 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Andy
However, there's not enough trust in the company to do that based on history. Just look at the way the company converts most long calls to short calls - that was NOT the intention of the contract.
Nor were building field standbys every day (negotiated for irregularities), or converting short calls to field standbys in the middle of their shifts (same),
or resetting morning short calls who already sat for a shift to a transcon red eye that night.
(Have had the crew desk "ask" me to go home from a field standby to come back for a red eye the same day...)

Most already know this, but we're constantly reminded that some still don't get it.

As a long time reserve, there is example after example of this company playing loose with the rules
once the pilots/contract give them an opportunity. The negotiating price we paid for our current contractual benefits
was hard fought with gives in some areas. Don't give more away based on the assumption that management
will do the right thing because you have good intentions. Defend the contract and let the union speak for us.
If the MEC wants to improve the SRL/LOA structure for volunteers, fine. But for the whole group to accept a universally
reduced guarantee is suicide if a bankruptcy happens because the judge will start there for the next reductions of "costs".
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Old 05-29-2020, 07:22 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by 1257
Nor were building field standbys every day (negotiated for irregularities), or converting short calls to field standbys in the middle of their shifts (same),
or resetting morning short calls who already sat for a shift to a transcon red eye that night.
(Have had the crew desk "ask" me to go home from a field standby to come back for a red eye the same day).
Hey Screw desk? Yeah ... Hate to do this but I can't do that red eye that leaves in a little over an hour ... Was up this morning for the field standby ... Went home per your call and never was able to get any sleep and now I AM FATIGUED. Sorry about that ... have a nice evening.

Been there and done that ... enough reserves that no one should fly fatigued.
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Old 05-29-2020, 10:42 AM
  #83  
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My union speaks for me
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:02 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by 1257
to accept a universally
reduced guarantee is suicide if a bankruptcy happens because the judge will start there for the next reductions of "costs"
.
Does anyone have a reference to show where a temporary reduction in hours has been used in bankruptcy as a baseline to reduce the minimum hour guarantee even further? This argument has been used a lot. If true, it is a strong argument against reducing hours. However, it seems unlikely it is true since bankruptcy would more likely reduce the hourly rates, not the minimum hour guarantee. I don’t see how reducing the min guarantee accomplishes much for the bankruptcy court. I’m
calling BS on this theory. That being said, I learn something every day, so I’m open to being proven wrong. Sources anyone?

Last edited by JUNEBUG82; 05-29-2020 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:25 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by JUNEBUG82
Does anyone have a reference to show where a temporary reduction in hours has been used as a baseline to reduce the minimum hour guarantee even further? This argument has been used a lot. If true, it is a strong argument against reducing hours. However, it seems unlikely it is true since bankruptcy would more likely reduce the hourly rates, not the minimum hour guarantee. I don’t see how reducing the min guarantee accomplishes much for the bankruptcy court. I’m
calling BS on this theory. That being said, I learn something every day, so I’m open to being proven wrong. Sources anyone?
You ask a question that is almost impossible to answer on this forum. However, it is an well established process that judges and arbitrators will use the “status quo”, as a beginning.

As for what the judge will do from there is largely determined by what the company and the creditors want. The employees have very little say in the matter, as they are not creditors.
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:50 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by JUNEBUG82
Does anyone have a reference to show where a temporary reduction in hours has been used in bankruptcy as a baseline to reduce the minimum hour guarantee even further? This argument has been used a lot. If true, it is a strong argument against reducing hours. However, it seems unlikely it is true since bankruptcy would more likely reduce the hourly rates, not the minimum hour guarantee. I don’t see how reducing the min guarantee accomplishes much for the bankruptcy court. I’m
calling BS on this theory. That being said, I learn something every day, so I’m open to being proven wrong. Sources anyone?
You're with Commutair aren't you? Why are you so invested in having us reduce our pay?
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Old 05-29-2020, 11:51 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by JUNEBUG82
Does anyone have a reference to show where a temporary reduction in hours has been used in bankruptcy as a baseline to reduce the minimum hour guarantee even further? This argument has been used a lot. If true, it is a strong argument against reducing hours. However, it seems unlikely it is true since bankruptcy would more likely reduce the hourly rates, not the minimum hour guarantee. I don’t see how reducing the min guarantee accomplishes much for the bankruptcy court. I’m
calling BS on this theory. That being said, I learn something every day, so I’m open to being proven wrong. Sources anyone?
The judge reduces EVERYTHING, almost immediately. The bankruptcy process does not give two ***** about employees....ONLY costs. Watch the Frontline piece on the United bankruptcy and it all becomes clear.
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:14 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by JoePatroni
The judge reduces EVERYTHING, almost immediately. The bankruptcy process does not give two ***** about employees....ONLY costs. Watch the Frontline piece on the United bankruptcy and it all becomes clear.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film/retirement/
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:37 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by massgflight
Disagree Lee. Management happily and for selfish reasons spends/wastes money at any point they feel the need.

Stock buybacks as an example. Was that wasted or spent? Let the crowd decide but I’ve read a heavily lopsided opinion in most threads: amongst the big 3 not just UAL.

Is spending money on some of our social activities the most productive & efficient way to spend earnings? I didn’t see any low costs widgets come from such spending. We don’t always execute the E in our core 4. Management executes as they do.

These items and philosophies are what concern me moving forward. FF.
I have many concerns about what the company does and doesn’t do. For instance where is my new contract?

Look, my union negotiates for me. I’ll leave at that.

Lee
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Old 05-29-2020, 12:52 PM
  #90  
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Full Pay to the Last Day. A contract is a contract. We don't have to give Jack Sh1te. In fact, if the MEC does their job, we won't even have to vote.
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