duvie

hey dude, your posts are always full of facts and their significance. I appreciate that.

I said a lot (Not most) of our pilots are selfish. That’s a difference worth highlighting. I said it weeks ago and I’m saying it now. I also said in almost every post that the argument “I don’t know how they’ll screw is, but they will” is clearly fear based.

as far as our history, I don’t think the seasonal model of airline asset utilization applies to today’s economics... just my take.

I’ll try to dig up my PDRs and show you if you want ....

when the union comes down on this I’ll drop it, until then, our voices are what inform LEC votes.

hslightnin

Let’s just repeal the “fair treatment for experienced pilots act”

Poss

Fear based?

Midterm wage adjustment in the 90's was a poke in the eye and pre cursor of the future. 9/11 pay cut round one to save the pension was a total fabrication. Round two gave them what they wanted. Shared sacrifice you know. Then we live under a bankruptcy contract for almost a decade because it's not personal, it's business. I've watched people enrich themselves off my sweat and pay cuts. That's not fear, that's reality.


Selfish?

No, it's become self preservation. I've worked more under a concessionary contract than I have an actual contract. I'm fortunate. I'm only down 19% in pay because as of yet, I haven't been bumped. A bump will cost another 15-20%. Throw in your 15-20% novelty and that spells DOA for any concession plan you are dreaming up.

AxlF16

My Union Speaks For Me



The COVID19 crisis is upon us and the damage from this global pandemic will be felt long into the future. Society will experience a new normal, as masks and social distancing have become part of our everyday lives. It is vitally important to remember that some things will never change. ALPA's commitment to safety and the notion that "My Union Speaks for ME", serve as the cornerstone of our message to the world.
The Airline industry has seen its share of tragedy and change. It is safe to say that we have never experienced a global pandemic that has affected our livelihoods to the same degree as COVID-19. In the coming months, we will see changes to our lives and working conditions. We have already suffered displacements, and furloughs are likely on the horizon. We can expect that management will approach us with their desire to change our Collective Bargaining Agreement. The media will show great interest in what is happening to our airline. We as professional pilots and members of the largest and strongest union in the world need to ensure we speak with one voice. We must employ a powerful unified approach toward any attempt to weaken our careers. It is imperative that each of us remember, when questioned by management or the media about our goals, the answer must be "My Union Speaks for Me".
Negotiating in public and 'bargaining with ourselves' on social media can only harm our efforts. Allowing management to divide us will ruin us. Our Management team has already suggested changes to our UPA in addresses to the media. We need to remember that we have a formidable team of ALPA elected representatives, professionals, and committee members with proven track records who work tirelessly on our behalf. The best way to support them is to keep a unified message and simply respond, "My Union Speaks for Me".
In order for ALPA to truly speak for the will of United pilots, we all need to regularly engage with our elected representatives. As government restrictions are eased, Local Council meetings are now being scheduled and should be attended whenever possible.

Pilots should use our PDR system and if necessary, engage their LEC reps directly via phone or e-mail. We are much stronger when we work together and remain United. By giving your input directly to our MEC, you can be very comfortable saying "My Union Speaks for Me".

duvie

My wife was a teacher, you want to see what happens when a union starts telling people, “don’t stick your nose where it doesn’t belong?” It’s not just ugly or impractical, it creates an environment where people don’t feel represented by their union and pretty soon you have right-to-work because the union is putting up as many hurdles to teach kids as the administration is with the ever changing standard.

I personally believe that one of the reasons our union is the exception to the ever decreasing unionization of our country, is that they are very accountable to their membership. We have an awesome MEC and volunteer cadre, it’s truly incredible. That said, I will absolutely defend my right to have an opinion, even one that isn’t in lockstep with the union. This isn’t social media, this is a very niche, albeit public, forum where extremely specific ideas are talked about by people who are 90% represented by the same union. I’m not in CNN discussing my feelings about this or attempting to change the public’s feelings about our plight.

When the union has some comms explaining what was offered by management and why they turned them down, I’ll happily let it go, but anyone who is espousing an opinion for or against MPG alteration is not “letting the union speak for them”

Daniel Larusso

If you’ve ever seen a company preparing for furlough, we (Purple) were not that when 4a2b was applied. What we had was a massive training bubble that was somewhat unexpected. The why gets emotional for folks, understandably, but it still was what it was.

We had a pretty big system bid that occurred before the Age 65 change and likely with the predominant expectation at the time that any change would be prospective and that folks over 60 at the time of passage would not be able to come back to flying seats afterwards. That changed. It changed further when the company cancelled the system bid allowing folks who otherwise would have been stuck on the panel or disability until the next system bid to now bid. Then the economy fell apart so you’re left with: a bunch of folks to absorb across the system, anticipated growth gone, new categories for the 757, 777 and overseas, and a shift of block hours amongst domestic fleets.

Basically flat block hours and a lot of folks in the wrong seats. Plus a need to backfill 727FE seats vacated by over age 60 people moving forward. So they managed the training bubble with the tools they had available. A series of vacancy and excess bids that absorbed the over 60 back up front and pushed everyone else down or at best in place. And they implemented 4a2b which at the time was poorly written and allowed for wildly different BLG’s (MPG) for different fleets and even seats within fleets. Open time, carryover and draft pay games to fill in the gaps. The anger from that still festers for many till this day. However ALPA reported that dues revenue year over year was basically flat. Most took that to mean that ALPA wasn’t sharing in the pain, but what it really meant was that overall pilot group compensation was the same, just spread unevenly as compared to the previous year.

We never came close to actually furloughing. Outside of one well crafted letter at the beginning talking about the possibility so that they could meet the contact threshold for entering 4a2b, they really never mentioned it much officially afterwards. It was just implied with excess bids and with a pilot group who by and large had never seen furloughs that was more than enough. Absent something like CARES, no airline that’s actually gonna furlough talks about it on end for months/years. They generally just shoot first and figure the rest out later. Many of our folks never actually left their seats in 4a2b because they played the bump game well and avoided training. Many actually got a raise to WB Capt pay by wisely using a clause in the contract related to foreign domiciles. Many were out of the excessed seats for less than a year and normal post age-65 movement for a company that still had 3man aircraft at the time of the rule change pressed on about a year later. Not fun, but preventing furloughs had nothing to do it-it was ugly training bubble for largely flat capacity. You’ve got a training bubble at UA due to your displacements, but it’s a bubble towards establishing a 70% capacity airline not a flat capacity one. The only real similarity is that your company wants to accomplish that as economically as possible for them.


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AxlF16

Gotcha. You want them to specifically ask you (by name?) and to list all of the specific social media sites. I pointed out clear comms from the MEC and you just give me a reason why you STILL won't let this drop. Nobody is saying that you're not entitled to your opinion- I'm saying that you are hurting our cause by beating your drum here. I think you need to rethink the causes of shrinking unionization.

ugleeual

ignore him... your just feeding the troll.

Tandem46

Bullsh#*t. He’s not hurting anything here on APC, land of a million posts a day covering every possible airline topic and you’re delusional if you think so. Why don’t you set the example and stop responding on this forum if you think it’s “hurting the cause”?

Itsajob

He’s not a troll, he just has some ideas that are different than most others. A troll shows up and says something just to stir the pot and get a reaction. Duvie isn’t trying to stir the pot, he is just presenting and defending an unpopular viewpoint. One of the problems with APC is that oftentimes failure to regurgitate the party line gets you labeled as a troll or a management plant, or if it something that shows that you’ve been flying for a long time, the boomer comments start.