TK Training Throughput?
05-15-2020, 07:57 PM
#11
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Posts: 1,358
Im glad that I don’t have to figure this mess out. Sitting home on reserve when your nonqual is a much better deal. I do think that Carlson and others in the company are very good at what they do. The 550 was a cleaver scope dodge, and this bid was well thought out within the framework of our contract. That worries me. I have no doubt that they will find a way to make a very big cut in October if that is what they want to do.
05-15-2020, 08:01 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
I don't think they'll go with 5 sim periods per day when they open. I'd expect it to be 4 sim periods per day with a 1 hour cleaning period between sim sessions and a 5 hr maintenance period daily. So cut any historic throughput by 20% or so.
All of the landings classes will also reduce sim availability a bit.
I'm assuming your numbers above included normal MVs and LOEs.
All of the landings classes will also reduce sim availability a bit.
I'm assuming your numbers above included normal MVs and LOEs.
05-15-2020, 08:11 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
3 takeoffs 1 in visual 1 with reduced visibility
3 landings
V1 cut at lowest certified RVR
visual approach to landing
ILS approach to landing
SE ILS approach to landing
CAT 3 to an Autoland to the aircrafts lowest certified minimums.
so no 3 bounces in the jet doesn’t work unless we get a waiver and are able to get the cirriculum built and approved within AQP. Also we would need to train out evaluators how to check in the aircraft.
only evaluators that are LCAs would be able to do the training as they are the only group that can sit in either seat during a live United flight.
We don’t have anywhere close to enough Evaluators that are also LCAs so we would need to hire, train get the FAA sign off then they could do it. So yeah it’s not going to happen.
05-15-2020, 08:12 PM
#14
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Both are great posts.
A backlog at TK doesn't matter because, as you mentioned, we're very expendable with current (lack of) flying demand from the public.
This massive displacement allows the company to train whomever they want. And yes, I would expect the cuts in October to be brutal from looking at the numbers. I would expect the first pilots retrained as 737/320 FOs to be some of the most senior displacements so that they will be able to keep the 737 and 320 properly staffed while they work on right sizing the airline.
A backlog at TK only slows furloughs when pilots are needed on the line. They’re planning for basically a 30% reduction with this bid. If we’re reduced 60% in October, we really don’t need very many pilots and that backlog isn’t that big of a deal. They could furlough 4,000 (approximate 30% number for sake of argument only) in October and simply train the survivors when they can. Also, by announcing a big number out of the gate, they can bypass training for everyone who will get furloughed. It’s more efficient than furloughing in waves when your demand and revenue are gutted. I’m afraid that we are more expendable than we like to think.
Im glad that I don’t have to figure this mess out. Sitting home on reserve when your nonqual is a much better deal. I do think that Carlson and others in the company are very good at what they do. The 550 was a cleaver scope dodge, and this bid was well thought out within the framework of our contract. That worries me. I have no doubt that they will find a way to make a very big cut in October if that is what they want to do.
05-15-2020, 08:28 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
there’s more to a landings class than that.
3 takeoffs 1 in visual 1 with reduced visibility
3 landings
V1 cut at lowest certified RVR
visual approach to landing
ILS approach to landing
SE ILS approach to landing
CAT 3 to an Autoland to the aircrafts lowest certified minimums.
so no 3 bounces in the jet doesn’t work unless we get a waiver and are able to get the cirriculum built and approved within AQP. Also we would need to train out evaluators how to check in the aircraft.
only evaluators that are LCAs would be able to do the training as they are the only group that can sit in either seat during a live United flight.
We don’t have anywhere close to enough Evaluators that are also LCAs so we would need to hire, train get the FAA sign off then they could do it. So yeah it’s not going to happen.
3 takeoffs 1 in visual 1 with reduced visibility
3 landings
V1 cut at lowest certified RVR
visual approach to landing
ILS approach to landing
SE ILS approach to landing
CAT 3 to an Autoland to the aircrafts lowest certified minimums.
so no 3 bounces in the jet doesn’t work unless we get a waiver and are able to get the cirriculum built and approved within AQP. Also we would need to train out evaluators how to check in the aircraft.
only evaluators that are LCAs would be able to do the training as they are the only group that can sit in either seat during a live United flight.
We don’t have anywhere close to enough Evaluators that are also LCAs so we would need to hire, train get the FAA sign off then they could do it. So yeah it’s not going to happen.
05-15-2020, 08:33 PM
#16
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
Not arguing LCA availability, but if you stayed in the pattern and did 3 landings in an actual aircraft prior to going nonqual, wouldn’t that be the same as 3 landings on the line? Normal takeoff, autopilot approach until 200 feet, and a normal landing. It’s not a landings class, it’s just getting 3 landings in the aircraft, thus voiding the need for a class.
05-15-2020, 08:56 PM
#17
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
I did a group landings qual before being released to IOE a long time ago and at another company. There was one captain, one engineer, and 4-5 first officers. We would rotate through the seat on downwind after the previous guy got his bounces. Those old sims weren’t certified for landings qualifications. Just one more thing that used to be the norm that wouldn’t get approved today.
05-16-2020, 06:38 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Jul 2011
Posts: 181
TK is planning 60% qual courses and 40% CQ when this spools up. They are going to have a difficult time with training as has already been said here,: Sim cleaning periods, travel to and from, bad attitudes. I highly recommend anyone who is scheduled for any Qual training request full course, be sure you don't come to training with any symptoms (it's allergy season), don't come to training if you feel stressed out (it's furlough season), take a flight that is convenient for you and your family, not the company's training schedule etc etc. We've been good boys and girls for years now... and this is what we get for it. CORE4.... it was a joke before, now it's ****in hilarious. #gotbuybacks?
05-16-2020, 08:08 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
the LCA ranks are being hammered by this on ALL fleets. By the way LCAs need sim training soooooooo there’s more sim slots down.
anyone know how long it takes to get an LCA signed off? 3 months? Not to mention posting the position interviewing and selection. 4-6 months before they are cleared to conduct?
Last edited by MasterOfPuppets; 05-16-2020 at 08:22 AM.
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