oldmako

Silence the horn. Fly the plane, do not redesign it. Collect pay. Go home.

We've been here before. Our help didn't help then and it won't help now. The last time we helped we got robbed afterward.

​​​​​​Silence the horn. Fly the plane, do not redesign it. Collect pay. Go home.

duvie

Pay rate concessions have obvious advantages for the company post recovery… Lower guarantee does not at all… SO THIS DOESNT HELP MANAGEMENT. They are incentivized to raise guarantee once this is over. For that reason, and the fact it has a very junior captain I was flying mostly with brand new FOs, I would do what I could to keep them property.

I honestly don’t understand how any of you can advocate that we should not pick up open time a.k.a. keep our lines right at 75 hours, but that we should not even consider reducing guarantee. it is the same exact idea: the more thinly spread we can keep the flying, the more bodies we need to cover those block hours. Anyone disagree with lowering guarantee is thinking more about themselves then the pilot group as a whole. Don’t try and sell me on the complexity of it. Mathematically, it absolutely would keep more bodies on property.

obviously management wants fewer pilots with more hours… But this would not be the first time our desires are at odds with management’s. I am getting downgraded, and at least 1000 people will be furloughed this fall, but there are still a lot of people’s jobs in the 1000-3000 range at stake. I am honestly confused at how so many ardent union pilots are arguing against this idea. It is obviously not a concession, because it is not something management would want going forward

sweptback

I applaud your effort to help your union brothers, but you are honestly assuming that the company wants to keep extra bodies.

Plans based on lower line values until the recovery assume that the recovery is right around the corner. What if it isn't? The company's displacements (and the associated cost to do so) suggest that this is a problem that won't be resolved in 6 months.

Itsajob

Lowering productivity only spreads out the hourly labor cost paid as wages. It does nothing to reduce other very expensive labor cost such as training, insurance, taxes, etc...... We could be jumping up and down asking for this, and I’m sure that the union is trying to come up with ways to lessen the size of the furlough, but the company will not be interested. In a furlough they get to wipe the books of surplus labor cost, we are shrinking the company so displacements are going to happen, training cost right now are significantly reduced since most pilots are just sitting around doing nothing, and even at 70%, we are still likely to be significantly overstaffed this fall.

duvie

i’m definitely not assuming that the company wants this. Quite the opposite, I believe that this is something our union would have to fight for. But many other employee groups at our airline are fighting for this exact thing and I am embarrassed for my pilot group that they do not want this.

And the duration is immaterial… If it keeps more bodies on property then it has served its purpose. This isn’t the kind of career with a bunch of 20 somethings with no responsibility being pushed to the street… Most of our new hires are in their 30s and 40s and have a family to feed. Many have relocated to new cities without a support system to make this job work. I flew with a dude who moved to Guam this spring. I am OK taking an additional pay cut and changing my lifestyle to make sure they have some income coming in.

The most relevant fact here is, that this temporary change to our contract does not benefit the company.

duvie

what Management wants is not my concern. What I am concerned about his what our pilot group and Union is fighting for

and the arguments I’m seeing against it present an alarmingly slippery slope… You are saying that many of our pilots would have to give up 10 hours of pay and it would not benefit proportionally that many more pilots. But as far as I’m concerned, the purpose of a unified labor group is that we care about the entire pilot list.

I am willing to give up 10 hours of pay even if it only kept an additional 200 pilots on property. That is 200 more families who will sleep much easier through this

I reiterate: I do not see how anyone can chest thump against people picking up open time during a furlough if they are not also willing to reduce the amount of block hours we are awarded each month in the first place

LeeFXDWG

Guys and gals,

Read 8-B of the UPA. That dictates the number of pilots on property. Period. The company sets the block hours and that drives the number of pilots. This is a given.

If you have great ideas to change the above, discuss with your LEC REPS. Doing so here is pointless.

Lee

duvie

Lee, I love your posts and really appreciate your dispassionate presentation of information, however, I absolutely disagree with your statement. Having a discussion that will then inform people‘s beliefs’ going forward is exactly the purpose of a forum.

I am trying to highlight the hypocrisy in the premise that accepting an arbitrary number in our contract as the fixed minimum hours you are given and that trying to fly anything above that a scab like behavior (which I agree with)… But then espousing an unwillingness to go below that number. Whatever the outcome, hopefully peoples’ beliefs are At least examined and they therefore have an informed opinion for their elected representatives. If enough of the pilot group believe something they will put pressure on their respective LECs to change it.

Itsajob

I agree with the intended purpose. I’m not concerned with what management wants, they aren’t concerned with what we want. If an option cost more than the UPA, the company has no reason to sign. If a plan like this would save the company money, they would be coming to us instead of us going to them.

Ualpilot

Bravo! You get it. Thanks. Many people are arguing that it's impossible for a million reasons, but the truth is they just don't want to do that sacrifice. I wish they would just admit that rather than hide behind false truths like the math is too complicated or we will ruin the UPA.