So no reduced credit hours for everyone?
05-04-2020, 08:30 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: The GF of FUPM
Posts: 3,073
I think I had already escaped the nightmare UAL was turning into back then but if I remember management went to the Union and asked for something like a 60 hour pay guarantee and they could have "saved" 1000 jobs...like I said I can't recall the exact details
but the idea was voted down pretty convincingly. Maybe there might be more of a chance now with our pilot group but I can't recall much support for the new folks back then.
but the idea was voted down pretty convincingly. Maybe there might be more of a chance now with our pilot group but I can't recall much support for the new folks back then.
05-04-2020, 08:36 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Posts: 281
A win-win for both pilots and UAL would be furlough mitigation policies that are completely voluntary; we increase the number of pilots getting a paycheck, and UAL gets to keep more warm bodies around for flexibility ... CAL did this in 2008, and supposedly the furlough numbers went from north of 500 to 148 ... that suggestion was sent to my Reps ... if you like the idea, send it to yours now ... I think furlough letters are coming sooner rather than later ... would not be surprised with 10% getting letters first week of Jun, effective 1 Oct ... why else would they do this massive displacement?
05-04-2020, 08:37 AM
#54
777 - ret
Joined APC: Apr 2020
Position: Waco CG-4 center seat
Posts: 863
You have a contract.
05-04-2020, 01:50 PM
#55
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
For what it’s worth, one of the union reps that I talked to said that he doesn’t know of a single rep, officer, or committee member who is even willing to entertain a discussion regarding concessions of any type. The company already has a contract to work with. It’s better to furlough with a strong contract than to give in to a lesser contract and then furlough anyway.
05-06-2020, 05:06 AM
#57
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: 737 IAH
Posts: 44
I understand where people are just discussing reduced hours to save the bottom guys like me. Couldn't this be done in a very specific way as to not destroy the contract?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
05-06-2020, 05:25 AM
#58
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
I understand where people are just discussing reduced hours to save the bottom guys like me. Couldn't this be done in a very specific way as to not destroy the contract?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
05-06-2020, 06:27 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2017
Position: CRJ9 CA
Posts: 4,083
I understand where people are just discussing reduced hours to save the bottom guys like me. Couldn't this be done in a very specific way as to not destroy the contract?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
05-06-2020, 06:41 AM
#60
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
I understand where people are just discussing reduced hours to save the bottom guys like me. Couldn't this be done in a very specific way as to not destroy the contract?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
Not saying this is the answer, but something laid out specifically like this
1) All line holder guarantee will decrease from 70 hours to 60 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12 to 14 days off.
2) All reserve pilots will decreases from 73 hours to 63 hours. Minimum days off increases from 12/13 to 14/15 days off.
3) No pilot may pick up flying that would go over 70 hours.
As a result of #1 and #2, we will save 10 hours per active pilot. Multiply each pilots savings on a dollar basis and that MUST be put into a pool to then be proven to be given to the most junior pilot that is on the chopping block. That pilot would be 60 hours at their blended rate and that money would be taken out of the pool.
When the company must increase line values as a result of an increase in demand, they shall begin with the most senior pilot and increase their rates back to 70 and 73 hours. They continue down the list until everyone is back to normal. Essentially, the most senior pilots would be made whole first while the more junior ones stay at the reduced pay but at least still have a paycheck.
I feel like if something is done very specifically and very thoroughly it wouldn't be a long term thing that would have to be negotiated back, but something that can be easily achieved.
Thoughts on why this can't work?
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