So no reduced credit hours for everyone?
05-07-2020, 12:16 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2015
Position: 777FO
Posts: 770
I've already written to my reps telling them no contract concessions... but I did suggest some purely voluntary options for keeping more guys on property that I could support. I won't discuss them on an open forum.
I also told them they would be hearing from me if I thought reserve coverage for any fleet was at all inadequate. As indicated above, the CO can keep additional reserves in excess of what is required by 8-B.
05-07-2020, 12:40 PM
#92
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A320
Posts: 661
I hope I’m wrong, but I think there are a lot more of our jobs at stake than 3000. If things continue as they are, I think they’ll cut 30% right away Oct 1, with plenty more to come if demand doesn’t start to pick up here real soon. I sure hope it does, for all of our sakes. People keep saying they can’t train that many in time, and that is probably accurate. The thing is, if we are only doing 10% or even 50% of our flying, they don’t need to. They can do the flying with the few that are left on the narrow bodies until the others get trained. Once everyone is trained if demand is still down, they can furlough again and start it all over. It’s just a siht sandwich right now 😐
05-07-2020, 12:49 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,701
I hope I’m wrong, but I think there are a lot more of our jobs at stake than 3000. If things continue as they are, I think they’ll cut 30% right away Oct 1, with plenty more to come if demand doesn’t start to pick up here real soon. I sure hope it does, for all of our sakes. People keep saying they can’t train that many in time, and that is probably accurate. The thing is, if we are only doing 10% or even 50% of our flying, they don’t need to. They can do the flying with the few that are left on the narrow bodies until the others get trained. Once everyone is trained if demand is still down, they can furlough again and start it all over. It’s just a siht sandwich right now 😐
05-07-2020, 01:34 PM
#94
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
Lee, I love your posts and really appreciate your dispassionate presentation of information, however, I absolutely disagree with your statement. Having a discussion that will then inform people‘s beliefs’ going forward is exactly the purpose of a forum.
I am trying to highlight the hypocrisy in the premise that accepting an arbitrary number in our contract as the fixed minimum hours you are given and that trying to fly anything above that a scab like behavior (which I agree with)… But then espousing an unwillingness to go below that number. Whatever the outcome, hopefully peoples’ beliefs are At least examined and they therefore have an informed opinion for their elected representatives. If enough of the pilot group believe something they will put pressure on their respective LECs to change it.
I am trying to highlight the hypocrisy in the premise that accepting an arbitrary number in our contract as the fixed minimum hours you are given and that trying to fly anything above that a scab like behavior (which I agree with)… But then espousing an unwillingness to go below that number. Whatever the outcome, hopefully peoples’ beliefs are At least examined and they therefore have an informed opinion for their elected representatives. If enough of the pilot group believe something they will put pressure on their respective LECs to change it.
You miss the point of my post.....oh well.
My post indicates nothing with regards to what I personally think merely what is.
Pilots need to communicate with their Reps regarding their ideas! Not on this forum!
Im not on the MEC. Don’t try and convince me.
Lee
05-07-2020, 01:59 PM
#95
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Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 1,337
05-07-2020, 03:36 PM
#98
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2018
Position: B-737 Captain
Posts: 657
Pay rate concessions have obvious advantages for the company post recovery… Lower guarantee does not at all… SO THIS DOESNT HELP MANAGEMENT. They are incentivized to raise guarantee once this is over. For that reason, and the fact it has a very junior captain I was flying mostly with brand new FOs, I would do what I could to keep them property.
I honestly don’t understand how any of you can advocate that we should not pick up open time a.k.a. keep our lines right at 75 hours, but that we should not even consider reducing guarantee. it is the same exact idea: the more thinly spread we can keep the flying, the more bodies we need to cover those block hours. Anyone disagree with lowering guarantee is thinking more about themselves then the pilot group as a whole. Don’t try and sell me on the complexity of it. Mathematically, it absolutely would keep more bodies on property.
obviously management wants fewer pilots with more hours… But this would not be the first time our desires are at odds with management’s. I am getting downgraded, and at least 1000 people will be furloughed this fall, but there are still a lot of people’s jobs in the 1000-3000 range at stake. I am honestly confused at how so many ardent union pilots are arguing against this idea. It is obviously not a concession, because it is not something management would want going forward
I honestly don’t understand how any of you can advocate that we should not pick up open time a.k.a. keep our lines right at 75 hours, but that we should not even consider reducing guarantee. it is the same exact idea: the more thinly spread we can keep the flying, the more bodies we need to cover those block hours. Anyone disagree with lowering guarantee is thinking more about themselves then the pilot group as a whole. Don’t try and sell me on the complexity of it. Mathematically, it absolutely would keep more bodies on property.
obviously management wants fewer pilots with more hours… But this would not be the first time our desires are at odds with management’s. I am getting downgraded, and at least 1000 people will be furloughed this fall, but there are still a lot of people’s jobs in the 1000-3000 range at stake. I am honestly confused at how so many ardent union pilots are arguing against this idea. It is obviously not a concession, because it is not something management would want going forward
And as far as you know, the company has already approached ALPA about reducing guarantee. Threatening massive furloughs if they didn't get it! Maybe the result of that was LOA 20-01. Voluntary reductions. Then the Cares Act took care of the furlough threat... for now.
And let's not forget the real possibility of bankruptcy. You go into bankruptcy with the status quo as a base line. You'll be stuck with whatever concessions you gave INCLUDING reduced guarantee. Then comes the big haircut from there. No thanks.
And finally, you bet I and others don't want to sacrifice a dime. Even if it "saves" some furloughs. Don't forget the sheet sandwich we took for just short of a decade the last time this industry took a dump. Furloughs and/or crap pay from 2003 - 2012. That's 1/3 of a career life. You never recover from that. I believe this crisis will be much more short lived especially with the retirements scheduled. (age 65 really juiced the suck in 2007)
I've already told my reps where I stand. NO CONCESSIONS. Period.
Last edited by guppie; 05-07-2020 at 04:13 PM.
05-07-2020, 04:18 PM
#99
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Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,066
05-07-2020, 04:27 PM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
Lee, I love your posts and really appreciate your dispassionate presentation of information, however, I absolutely disagree with your statement. Having a discussion that will then inform people‘s beliefs’ going forward is exactly the purpose of a forum.
I am trying to highlight the hypocrisy in the premise that accepting an arbitrary number in our contract as the fixed minimum hours you are given and that trying to fly anything above that a scab like behavior (which I agree with)… But then espousing an unwillingness to go below that number. Whatever the outcome, hopefully peoples’ beliefs are At least examined and they therefore have an informed opinion for their elected representatives. If enough of the pilot group believe something they will put pressure on their respective LECs to change it.
I am trying to highlight the hypocrisy in the premise that accepting an arbitrary number in our contract as the fixed minimum hours you are given and that trying to fly anything above that a scab like behavior (which I agree with)… But then espousing an unwillingness to go below that number. Whatever the outcome, hopefully peoples’ beliefs are At least examined and they therefore have an informed opinion for their elected representatives. If enough of the pilot group believe something they will put pressure on their respective LECs to change it.
They will come asking. Count on it. They just haven't yet because of the bailout. No need to help out now, as they will get whatever they want by threatening larger furloughs, or bankruptcy. Which may be where we are headed anyway. Don't start from 1/2 pay going in. They'll just take more--again---and again.
Personally I have a couple of things I will not do once pilots are on furlough, but that's just me. Contact concessions, no. Do what we can to mitigate furloughs, yes. I'll say it again, contract concessions, no.
One of the best things we can do right now, is to hold management to the contact. In particular, all the abuses and new creative ways the crew desk manages pilots. Every time you let them get away with one abuse, that is one pilot they don't have to pay--for free, concessions for free.
Let's all hope this event is short lived.
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