Andy

I think that the price break on the Maxes (due to 787 issues) make them worth taking delivery.

Andy

I hate the max and all guppies, but the max is pretty darned fuel efficient - and that was one of Boeing's major objectives in the max design … fuel efficiency.

hamsandwich

you must never have flown a crj 200.

AxlF16

Just using your post as a jumping off point Hoss.

Obviously non contractual, but the most efficient option for the company is a system rebid. How close can they actually get to that 'ideal' by displacing from all categories on the same bulletin and setting the jr man at their 'end state' desired level? To some extent that would prevent the cascade of displacements over a long period by 'blocking' categories. I can't find any specific language that addresses this concern, but it seems common sense that they must have a realistic TK and LCA training capacity to meet the effective date of the bulletin? UPA 8E says the bulletin shall be published not less than 30 days nor more than 125 days prior to the effective date. I 'assume' this means that each individual bulletin will have a single effective date for all categories? I'm currently trying to digest the UPA displacement provisions....

Just thinking out loud. Thanks for any insights.

cadetdrivr

It's actually pretty simple.

This would entail closing and opening the same categories in the same bid. That's a huge disaster ($$$) for the company if you look at the provisions for closing and opening categories. In fact, I don't think there's even the ability to do that on the same bid.

AxlF16

I didn't do a good job articulating my question...and this attempt won't be any better lol.

I'm not talking about closing categories, I'm talking about displacing all at once. Here's an example:

EWR 777 FO displaced - Seniority 10000 (current jr man ~12600). Bump game would take him on a typical path of 320/737 Captain, 787 FO, eventually 320/737 FO. Maybe jumping bases, but EWR is a pretty jr base in all categories.
EWR 320 Captain jr man is ~10600
EWR 737 Captain jr man is ~10700
EWR 787 FO jr man is ~ 10900

If the end game is that this pilot ends up as a NB FO, can the company displace from all of those categories on the same bulletin thereby resetting the new jr man levels and preventing the EWR777 FO from displacing into any category other than the NB FO? How far can they go with this, and what are the guardrails?

To take it to the extreme, say they simply displaced 50% of every single category at once? Can they do that even if they can't realistically train prior to the effective date? We have 8-F-9 'bump' rights if our vacancies aren't trained in a timely manner, but I don't see anything similar for displacements?

Sorry I'm not very clear with the question...

Charlie Buster

After reading the applicable portions of UPA, that’s exactly what I was wondering....

nopac6

The level of denial is just astonishing. You’re wasting your breath (keystrokes) though. Their minds are stuck in the pre-Covid world and there’s no amount of reality or data that’s going to change that.

This process is going to be painful for everyone but especially those in deep denial. Every step in the process is going to be a big “surprise” for this group.

Itsajob

They could right size multiple categories on one displacement bid. They just set the min/max numbers where they want and the bump possibilities are limited. The excess are awarded 320/737 first officer, and then furloughed. That’s the theory, the practical issue of getting all of that through TK is another issue.

MasterOfPuppets

yeah let’s bring back the SHRINK TO PROFITABILITY war cry. That was so efficient and put United in such a great place last decade.

there are 2 choices gut your route network and run and hide, or maintain your structure in a reduced form and be ready to take all the passengers that abandon the other airlines who’s route network doesn’t work anymore.

kirby is on record wanting to be option 2. We can either come out of this like LUAL in the 2000s or we can come out like Delta In the 10’s.