Furlough estimate
05-23-2020, 10:22 AM
#731
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
So, I get this notice on CCS today: “You should participate in the Recurrent Training Bid process this month for recurrent training occurring in the June 2020 bid period. Bidding opens on April 18th at 10:00 CT and closes on April 25th at 10:00 CT.” They do realize its MAY 23rd, right?!?!?! 🤦🏼♂️🤦🏼♂️
Lee
05-25-2020, 10:36 PM
#732
Line holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: On the bus,seat 0A
Posts: 3,348
BK judge: “What was your pilot payroll cost last month to sustain operation?”
UAL: “300 million.”
BL judge: “OK, cut that 20%.”
ALPA: “But that was after we lost 40% in displacements and then a voluntary reduction in hours!”
BK judge:
UAL: “20% it is, roger!”
ALPA: “But we had an ironclad agreement!”
UAL: “Also, we’re going to furlough.”
UAL: “300 million.”
BL judge: “OK, cut that 20%.”
ALPA: “But that was after we lost 40% in displacements and then a voluntary reduction in hours!”
BK judge:
UAL: “20% it is, roger!”
ALPA: “But we had an ironclad agreement!”
UAL: “Also, we’re going to furlough.”
WAG numbers: 13,300 active pilots, management wants to furlough 3,500, and ALV is 75 hours.
So current hours is 1M, and SK wants 750K. If ALV gets reduced to 55 there is no need to furlough.
Payroll cost would be lower because average YIS would be lower.
Payroll cost would be higher because 30% more pilots getting health insurance.
Displacements will happen regardless.
Saving the company money on retraining cost is beneficial to everyone in the company.
Also, if a BK judge is calling the shots the whole UPA is out of the window.
05-26-2020, 04:22 AM
#733
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,737
I am not UAL, and have no dog in your fight.
WAG numbers: 13,300 active pilots, management wants to furlough 3,500, and ALV is 75 hours.
So current hours is 1M, and SK wants 750K. If ALV gets reduced to 55 there is no need to furlough.
Payroll cost would be lower because average YIS would be lower.
Payroll cost would be higher because 30% more pilots getting health insurance.
Displacements will happen regardless.
Saving the company money on retraining cost is beneficial to everyone in the company.
Also, if a BK judge is calling the shots the whole UPA is out of the window.
WAG numbers: 13,300 active pilots, management wants to furlough 3,500, and ALV is 75 hours.
So current hours is 1M, and SK wants 750K. If ALV gets reduced to 55 there is no need to furlough.
Payroll cost would be lower because average YIS would be lower.
Payroll cost would be higher because 30% more pilots getting health insurance.
Displacements will happen regardless.
Saving the company money on retraining cost is beneficial to everyone in the company.
Also, if a BK judge is calling the shots the whole UPA is out of the window.
05-26-2020, 05:09 AM
#734
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Posts: 633
05-26-2020, 05:11 AM
#735
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
05-26-2020, 05:18 AM
#736
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,262
I oppose
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
Filled
05-26-2020, 05:21 AM
#737
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2012
Position: 787
Posts: 3,202
I oppose
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
05-26-2020, 05:38 AM
#738
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 2,737
true... I remember back in 2000 management told us to throw away our logbooks as we hit the jackpot... 2 furloughs later still have not updated it. I think you might be holding on to false hope... a reduced guarantee to save from furloughs is not going to happen.
05-26-2020, 05:54 AM
#739
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2011
Position: CA
Posts: 1,039
I oppose
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
Pay rate cuts
MPG cuts
getting rid of premium pay and any other contractual incentive pay
I support hard caps on credit hours. No banking allowed; all credit above the caps goes to the furlough fund.
We've all seen credit time *****s take advantage of these times, with the company happy to have them get max credit hours so that recalls can be delayed. That needs to stop.
05-26-2020, 05:55 AM
#740
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
One of the reasons we cannot come to a consensus on this argument, is because the above statement is just mathematically not true. Obviously management has a number of block hours they need to cover, and the fewer hours each pilot can fly, the more pilots you need. So the question is not: would it save furloughs, it is: is it a good idea?
valid arguments:
- management has no real desire in having extra bodies, therefore we are wasting negotiating capital and time on an exercise in futility
- if we’re going to bankruptcy, the judge may ask what each pilot in each category makes on average, and cut our wages X% from that number (Rather than taking X% off the hourly rate ).
- this is a change to the UPA, which sets a bad precedent going forward
Responses:
- i’ll leave it to the union to decide which furlough mitigation efforts are most fruitful.
- I think a lot of us maintain that if we are in bankruptcy, there are so many other things to worry about, that this does not seem like a guaranteed scenario VS the threat of far fewer block hours than pilots is already upon us.
- as many of us have stated, we do not believe this is a concession in the strictest definition of the word, because it is not something that management would desire under normal circumstances either
valid arguments:
- management has no real desire in having extra bodies, therefore we are wasting negotiating capital and time on an exercise in futility
- if we’re going to bankruptcy, the judge may ask what each pilot in each category makes on average, and cut our wages X% from that number (Rather than taking X% off the hourly rate ).
- this is a change to the UPA, which sets a bad precedent going forward
Responses:
- i’ll leave it to the union to decide which furlough mitigation efforts are most fruitful.
- I think a lot of us maintain that if we are in bankruptcy, there are so many other things to worry about, that this does not seem like a guaranteed scenario VS the threat of far fewer block hours than pilots is already upon us.
- as many of us have stated, we do not believe this is a concession in the strictest definition of the word, because it is not something that management would desire under normal circumstances either
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