BMEP100

That’s rich. You equate standing firm on the contract to being a scab.
WOW, really lame shame attempt.

And I certainly didn’t say anyone NEEDED anything., Sounds like you are implying it though for yourself, to save you from the furlough bus, so many have taken before you.

I understand your fear and frustration. Been there myself. Made it through it. Try to maintain some bit of dignity. You’ll get through this. We all most of us did, with some bumps and bruises. Trying to shame your colleagues into giving concessions won’t help you in the long run.

duvie

1. lots of people who lived through the strike at CAL said that about scabs. I flew with many CAL 95-01 hires (pre CAL being desirable) who were legit union dudes who said exactly that. And for all the forum chest thumping about scabs I rarely see guys at the briefing tables treating slick ties any differently. Always been a pet peeve of mine

2. I highly doubt I’ll be furloughed, so to ascribe selfish motivation to my desire to take a paycut to help the people I’ve flown with over the last year is an attempt to discredit me without really addressing the real issue.

3. Obviously I cannot answer every question about how lower guarantee mechanics would work... but that doesn’t negate the ability to do it. It will mean less money for all those on property... to try and dress that up any other way would be be disingenuous,

4. It’s not a concession because it isn’t good for the company after recovery. It’s a concession to your desire to make more money at the expense of someone else on the street

5. I’m NOT saying there isn’t a bottom floor at which we have to furlough. I’m not down to cut guarantee to 35 hours.... but to think we couldn’t do 15 and save hundreds of pilots... really??

6. I don’t have to have been furloughed to see the holes in somebody’s argument. One of my favorite sayings in the military: “when you’re right you’re right.” Doesn't matter if it’s an E-3 calling BS on an E-6, if someone isn’t operating correctly, call it out. At least that’s how my shop worked. All I’m getting is
- “it doesn’t work that way“
- “the company wont do it”
- “you’re shaming people”
- “you’re publicly negotiating”

please expand and tell me why I’m wrong, but so far nobody has
- explained how a lower guarantee helps the company post COVID
- why we shouldn’t be ashamed that we didn’t do more to help the people on the bottom of the list.
- how some opinions about how things could/should go are acceptable venting/critiques, while others (often when they don’t line up with your own ideas) are negotiating in public

Tandem46

Yeah, yeah, I know, you walked uphill both ways in the snow barefoot and didn’t complain so by God the rest of the junior guys are gonna do it too and they’d better like. Like some one else said, leave your pin at home. This “in solidarity” and “staying united” is a bunch of BS. This is not 2001 or 2008 and attitudes like yours are going to ultimately screw everyone in the long run. This could *potentially* be a very short, albeit painful blip on our collective radar if we collectively play this right. If SK tries to slip some BS concession into the mix, vote it down then, but in the meantime coming on here and proclaiming “full pay til last day” and “I’m voting “no” no matter what” is short sighted, selfish, and certainly not in keeping with “solidarity” and “staying united”.

okawner

I feel if the company really wanted to keep pilots on the payroll then they wouldn't have pushed the ESRL programs. Did they not realize how many fewer takers they would get by trying to squeeze an extra 10 hrs pay out of our pockets vs. just offering the contractual SRL? They probably could have made up the difference and then some due to the increased number of takers.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

ugleeual

I know... it amazes me when you come across someone like him. The thing that really sucks the most is how captain Duvie (small C), and many more like him, are mentoring our new hires on how to be a good union pilot by giving away the farm when times don’t go as planned. Fear is what crushes a union from within... and we need to be strong and firm with the company right now... and not voluntarily give back everything we have clawed back during negotiations these past decades.

ugleeual

CORE4... SK will save you... just help him help you...

The flying will return... could be this Fall... could be 5 years from now. Pilots will be furloughed when it’s slow... and they will recall and hire when it’s busy... that’s the industry you chose.

duvie

dude, what am I trying to give away. Please quote me.

answer any one of the points I’ve made. I gave a list and your return is a snark about core4, yet I’m uniformed?

I’m ready to have my mind changed but there’s a real scarcity of concrete reasons why this is bad other than it will be harder financially in the short term.

I have never expressed a desire to change anything in the UPA. Has anybody? We’ve all been around enough to understand that’s a terrible idea. if nothing else, tell us how a LOA for temporary lower guarantee will be used against us post Covid.

whaler

Those that forget history are doomed to repeat it. Only the company can mitigate furglouhs through voluntary leaves. Why don't you spend your time giving them all your suggestions.

BMEP100

Okay, I’ll explain a little of to you sarge. You are not wrong..to care about wanting to keep more fellow pilots employed or maybe hang on to your captain seat in your base. Your idea is what’s wrong, however. SK says the things he does publicly, like today, to play on your emotions with the hope you will influence your union.

As for the mpg; there were times in the past , and still some places today that don’t have mpg or they are very low. In the early days of this industry, you flew and got paid for what you flew PERIOD. That allowed mis-managing the market and crew resource managers less accountable..at the expense of each pilot affected. Pilot pay could vary greatly month to month with much less pay stability. We could have more pilots employed here, and not on the streets or flying crappy jobs, if we would all just agree to fly a little less and take home less money, good times or bad. That’s not the shared goal of the pilots here.

It helps the company immensely to have more pilots on property at lower guarantees, so they don’t have to bid, train, transfer and pay pilots for the changes in the markets, or their own mistakes in where they put airplanes.

This is all pretty fundamental stuff, and airline pilots have been through this many times over the decades. It comes down to, how much is a ie; 737 captain worth to be available for a month? That’s how you pay your bills, right? Mortgage, car, tuition, lights....Sooooo,,cutting guarantee is a pay cut. While we’re at it, maybe we could keep some more pilots on board if we’d just give up those crew meals. How about lower percentage deadhead pay? And once it’s cut, no matter how it’s cut, it is really hard to get back to even. Ha, we still haven’t gotten back full pay for vacation days.

Getting the picture? It’s the imperfection of this capitalist society we try to balance with collective bargain principles. There is no perfect solution in this world. Still some try to re-invent the wheel.

And obtw, sounds like you have some grave mis-conceptions and unwarranted prejudices about post strike CAL pilots fed to you by some one. Making such sweeping remarks about them as a group doesn’t help anyone’s cause..especially yours. You appear to be the victim of someone else’s prejudicial propaganda . I’ve flown with many of that group and they are as stand up aviator’s and friends as any other here. They are United pilots.

AirMicronesia

Open your ears. I’ve heard that from both legacies at Mother U. Disgusting.