Oletimer

Maybe it's "tone deaf" on the jerk-wads who are running this company. Maybe it was "tone-deaf" for the idiots who bought back billions in stock and left us with no emergency fund. Maybe it's "tone deaf" on management for forcing pilots to go to training on new aircraft, or maybe it's "tone deaf" to force pilots into commuting.

The old dudes aren't "scared" of training events. We're scared of the fools who run this company. The same morons who thought we needed purple uniforms and who wanted to buy more 737 max aircraft.

We're not gonna be pushed around by the training Nazi's either. This is "my training program" so to speak. If I feel I don't know a system well enough to move forward, so be it. I'll take my sweet-arse time about it and figure it out. That ain't tone deaf, it's just a way of insulating and inoculating myself for the crap we're fixing to and put up with.

The reality is this: No One wants to be there. Not the guy in the left seat, not the guy in the right seat, and not the TI who knows he's fixin to hit the unemployment line. It's gonna be a shtt show all the way around.

Attitude is everything. I ain't got no attitude til I get a reason to get an attitude. Attitudes aren't going to be warm and cozy. I predict lots of turmoil and dysfunction in leadership, in training, and in the training process.

Charlie Buster

^^^^Exactly. We have to remember that ALL of their decisions are driven by minimizing cash burn ASAP. On the investors call, SK stated all management decisions are being made with two primary operating principles: 1) preserve the ability to bounce back and 2) protect the long term health of UAL (or words to that effect). “While we agonize about the decisions that will impact our employees we will not agonize or hesitate to make them.”

Oletimer

You should reconsider that. Management's mis-management did this. Not him. He is pointing out that management's plan may be flawed.

Oletimer

Ahh... I see someone got the message within his message. Good for you. Now pass it on.

ugleeual

no EICAS on 737s? what? They still do packs off takeoffs on the guppy or is that old school -300/500 stuff?

Inkoreausa

In all fairness to management.....NOTHING they could have ever done...no money they could have ever put away for a rainy day would have ever made any difference whatsoever with respect to this COVID 19 clown show and the hysteria surrounding it. Government bailouts won’t even make a difference unless the economy opens up and passengers return.

dumpcheck

Agreed. Our best result as a pilot group will come from supporting each other with unity. We are staring into an abyss, and pilots don’t like things we cannot control or plan. This too shall pass.

Having spent half of my 20 years here on the street, I agree that it sucks to hear working pilots complaining about getting bumped or losing hours or having to sell toys when one is about to be unemployed. The flip side is that many pilots in the last 5-10 years of their careers have endured hard times before and are trying to “catch up” with fewer years and options remaining. This sucks for everyone, and if you want compassion, the golden rule is the best place to start. Gratitude is an amazingly powerful mindset, and in times like these I try to continuously remind myself of my blessings.

We have a contract that we need to defend now more than ever. As soon as we start offering up concessions, the downslope turns to ice and this job loses its luster very quickly for a really long time. When I returned from furlough number one, this job was not fun: 50% less pay for 30% more work with terrible morale company-wide...and I still got furloughed...again. We took TWO ROUNDS of voluntary concessions in 2003 and still furloughed over 2000 AND filed bankruptcy where we lost the A fund and much more. Were any pilots (or their pensions) saved or delayed from furlough...? At what cost?

How is hoping for the “bump game” or training “issues” to drag out significantly different from not wanting to work reduced hours for a 63yo’s last 2 years? These are all contractural protections that increase our cash burn. There are a lot of different situations amongst our group, and the only thing we really have to unite us is a GOOD contract that makes us want to work here. The thing we have the most control over right now is our contract. Let’s not make the mistake of conceding rules and benefits that will not guarantee a return. The only entity that should ever put concessions into our contract is a bankruptcy judge.

50 hours is already in the contract...for an SRL, period. The company already got ALPA to concede this option with lower/delayed pay. More voluntary options is good and not a concession, ALPA says. I say it’s the slippery slope, and means many of us lost 10 hours a month (on paper) due to ESRLs (“enhanced” for whom?). Instead, many bid reserve instead of an SRL for May, lowering the overall savings. The more variables that exist and the more the company changes their side of the equation, the more we need to dig in and insist on upholding our contract (which is overdue for an improvement and an ongoing concession BTW).

Furloughs are tough. I lost my house, my marriage, and plenty more. But I would not have my life follow a different path. Personal growth truly comes from adversity-the cliche is true. The furlough fund will be revived (and thank you all for your past contributions), and by staying unified we will support each other to find creative employment options that may even provide greater fulfillment as they stabilize this side-gig we call piloting. This has always been a cyclical industry, and I was correctly advised that I would eventually be furloughed years before I ever joined any airline.

I'm thinking of a metaphor with the virus: contract concessions are akin to shutting the economy (normal contract) down and hiding in place, hoping to avoid the worst for the most vulnerable (furloughs/ICU overload). But the negative consequences are much longer lasting with many unintended side effects that are universal in scope, and at the end of the initial wave of the pandemic, what have we really saved/averted? How will we “re-open” (snap back) and what will be lost forever in the “new normal (contract)?” Once government (management) starts making changes in the name of survival, it is very difficult to change that momentum.

Inertia favors our contract. Six months ago, the company favored this status quo with heels dug in. Now it’s our turn to remind them and defend the very same contract.

MasterOfPuppets

and they have bleed air?????

Huell

Nailed it pretty well.

JoePatroni

Read this ^^^^^ and read it again. They dug their heels in now it’s our turn.