DashTrash

This^^^^. The whole mentality that “it’s just your turn” is myopic and hypocritical!!!

Poss

This is simply the nature of our profession. Almost every new hire I've flown with asks the question "how many do I have to have beneath me to be safe?" They ask because they know the risk of furlough. Only the most callous would not feel for the situation our junior pilots find themselves in.

DwightSchrute

If I had dollar for every time a Captain said “you’re above 2172, we’ll never see another 9/11 again... RELAXXXX!” Over the last 7 years I’d be retired already! Talk about early out! Didn’t make it out of the 3900....

Hedley

I think that your frustration could be misplaced and that the problem isn’t the union, or an old vs young deal. Before we can look at details, much less vote on anything, the company has to agree to a plan. It could be that their best offer was what we have seen already. The union could be working hard to come up with mitigation plans, but the company just says no. We’re just a number, and if furloughs save a buck, that is what they’ll do.

Poss

I was more of a 20% train of thought. Odd because when someone would ask that question I always finished with save $$ for a rainy day fund. While it can be rewarding, it is a brutal profession in many ways.

Terribly sorry you're within the bubble. I'm not so sure we are going to hit the 3900 number.

UALFlyer

We ALL do pay dues, but the "let the grownups talk" is your opinion. I haven't seen it. And the "we are protecting you from yourselves", well that's your opinion to.

Just look at the details from the worst case scenario, because the company is going to. Also, if a concessionary contract does get passed, and we go into bankruptcy, what are you going to individually give to make whole those who voted against a concessions yet lost? Be careful of only seeing the upside for you individually.

And at least you recognize socialism for what it is. Hopefully you realize the pitfalls of it. Look up Margret Thatchers quote on socialism, it's spot on.

DwightSchrute

I hope that you are right! Don’t want to see anyone furloughed, but less is always better than more. A lot of families and futures out there!

ReadOnly7

I never used the word “socialism”. I think that’s an extreme term. I would just like a chance to vote on something, which is called democracy. And I would like for all the pin-wearing “union” members (all of us) to actually think about what that word means. You wanna preach unity during the good times and circle the wagons during the bad.....and bring ideology into the argument as if that somehow proves your point?

If the proposal sucks, then it will get voted down. That’s how it’s supposed to work, right? If you hate socialism, shouldn’t you be a fan of democracy? Or are you more of a plutocracy kinda guy? I have made my own assumptions. When the dust settles, and people come back.......the CAL/UAL merger dispute is gonna look like a minor squabble compared to the eternal bitterness this BS is sowing.

horrido27

Some of us have known for a while that there were 3 distinctive groups of pilots here at United-
Legacy United
Legacy Continental
Post Merger New Hires

The company has always known that and it's their job to try and figure out a way to get 50% + 1 to vote the way they want.

The fact that the company is targeting EVERY PMNH should tell you something.
The fact that there is a rumor out there of 3 different tiers of MPG pay for the top 3900, middle 3900 and bottom 3900 is not a consequence either.

But, we still have a Contract that must be followed. Company HATES that.
There is a reason why we have the displacement process that we do- to make it painful and costly for the company to furlough.
They could have AND should have done an Early Out first.. to weed out the top end. Only then would a potential furlough number been possible and realistic. And then we could have utilized 20-Q-8 to also mitigate potential furloughs.
We HAVE a Contract. It was the company that has dragged their feet for over 2 years in negoitating a new Contract.
Now THEY want US (This Pilot Group) to pay for job protections... hmm.

I feel for everyone who is on the Potential Furlough List.
That being written.. I feel for you NOT because you may be out on the street next month- I feel for you because the company has been playing games with you.
Never have I recalled a potential furlough been drawn out for 6 months!
Never have I heard of a potential furlough without actually putting real numbers out there, for months on end (Keep in mind, at the end of April the company stated "30% smaller" without defining what that meant. Then 2 May we had the first displacement bid that showed a surplus of over 4400 pilots)
Never have I heard of a real furlough number.. followed by an Early Out/Furlough Mitigation Program and then a higher number of furloughs!

This sucks.. no doubt about it. But understand one thing. Mr. Gambler only looks at us as chips. Management has one job.. that is to lower costs to raise profits and stock price. We are a cost that they DREAM of cutting.

Stay Strong, Stay Informed...
Always
Motch

PS) I still have my Furlough Letter from Continental.. and some of the email traffic where I told the Union to NOT accept a JV Concession to save my job. Most of us have been where you (potential furloughees) are. We feel your pain~

Hedley

Before any proposal can be voted on, there has to be some type of agreement. If the company isn’t wanting to listen to mitigation talks, it’s hard to have a vote when all we have is gridlock. From what I understand, they have dug their heels in on reducing short term cash burn. Unless we can offer a plan that reduces that more than a furlough, they aren’t buying and there’s nothing to vote on.