baseball

I disagree. We likely can't get objective enough criteria in place that is both trust-worthy and verifiable to guarantee the temporary cuts don't become long term guts.

When CAL furloughed the 147, those pilots at least had a place worth coming back to.
This is a good time RIGHT NOW, for all vulnerable pilots (bottom half of the list) to dust off their resume's and do some career broadening.

We could work for free and it likely won't help the hemorrhaging of the corporate finances.

The company simply needs to get a very large access to credit. That would be my advice to the reps. Simply encourage the company to go out and get access to capital. We've given enough in this profession financially. It's time for management to do what management does; get cash, and get it on the best terms they can.

As pilots we can continue to operate as efficiently as possible and point out where economic efficiencies can be gained. But, we all have bills to pay, and we need our paychecks too. The union should never go out and get Stockholm syndrome. Management manages. The union enforces labor agreements.

baseball

I would say the union acted ethically, reasonably and responsibly. The union gave choices to the pilots and those choices came at the behest of management. Management presented options, some of which likely didn't make it to the pilots. At the end of the day the pilot chooses to participate in these voluntary programs or doesn't. I am ok with that. I don't view it as a concession, i simply view it as a choice. Some pilots may take this down time to do the things they've wanted to do and couldn't get the time off. It's a choice. it's voluntary.

Andy

I must have missed the portion of the contract that mentions multi-month SRLs.

ChrisJT6

You equate mitigating furloughs w Stockholm syndrome? Nice 2012 SLI fantasy slogan..I’ll pass on your flamebait ..Our votes wIll be a wash and I’ll sleep good at night.

cadetdrivr

Uh, a voluntary Surplus Reduction Line (SRL) option has been in the UPA all along (20-Q-8). It was negotiated exactly for this type of situation and was used during April, for example.

The MEC approved a new LOA that provides the same credit (50hrs) but splits the pay between now and a promise for the remainder at a later date (December).

Both sides might be playing 4-D chess, [sarcasm] but yeah, it wasn't a concession. [/sarcasm]

baseball

There's no flame bait at all. I've looked into what other professions and advocations are doing. No discussion on voluntary concessions to mitigate furloughs.

I don't want to see what happened at the CAL MEC happen here. That is the sort of stockholm syndrome I am referring to.

I don't understand your 2012 SLI slogan reference.

It's all about supply and demand. Our focus should be on meeting the demand as supply is added back into the system.

I would support ALPA in distributing funds on an as needed basis to any pilots who are furloughed. We've given ALPA allot of money over the years. ALPA could look inside introspectively and see what financial resources could be re-allocated and distributed to pilots in need.

Thor

OK, the past trend, what is that? The UPA, the last round of furloughs, the latest round of flexibility provided to the company?

Do you think that there’s something ALPA can do to prevent furloughs in the Fall?

I’m sure that what you have to say is important, but’s it’s just not clear what that is. I’m not trying to be snarky or an English major, but I read that first message 3 times and still don’t fully understand what your feedback to the LEC was. If you’re asking for unity on a direction, throw your union brothers a bone and be clear about what that is.

ALPA threw the company a bone and provided some voluntary methods to reduce payroll. I’m not convinced that they’re 100% behind the new programs but it’s up to the company to sell it.

Beyond that, I’d be very very critical of an MEC that makes too much of an effort to put our collective heads on the chopping block.

So with that, what IS your proposal?

KonaJoe

We ratified the UPA conditions for SRL's under circumstances that don't mean jack #### anymore. I think, considering that this whole thing is an existential crisis for airlines, we need to pick our battles. I'm more interesting in preserving the hourly pay rates than I am about the nuances of SRL agreements.

Again, don't like it? Don't take it.

Andy

Just throwing out a suggestion, not negotiating anything.

PMFJI, but the LPA could be reduced further than what the contract currently calls for with pilots on furlough. 5-B-1-a puts LPA no less than 74 and no greater than 82. Agree to lower those numbers further.

In addition, put a cap on total monthly credit hours of say 90 (a number that was removed from my rectum) with all time above that to be paid at a rate of … zero. No pay bank for the credit *****s. All assignments above 80 monthly credit can be refused by the pilot.

He11 no to pay cuts. Cut hours worked, not pay.

The above allows management to furlough fewer pilots and reduces training costs for them.

Feel free to criticize; I'm just tossing out the idea.

ChrisJT6

it’s fine to disagree in the free country we live in thanks to those who sacrificed many times involuntarily...if we had a massive biblical type event or war, I would support a draft to support the greater good for instance...you seem to be saying you wouldn’t entertain loosing a minute of your guarantee to save a fellow union pilot from ruin. Voting is part of democracy and the voluntary bit is covered by our freedom to vote or leave anytime we like. Temp pay caps were done by most (not just CAL) union carriers in 2008, FefEx, UPS Ect. I understand your position but how can you justify flying 90+ hour business as usual lines when we are experiencing a historic hit not created by UAL and one single pilot in our list is furloughed? As far as operating efficiency, not much chance of that anytime soon if you have the bottom half furloughed. Do you really believe that United could survive those inefficient times it would take to cut 7000 pilots and some for the third time? As far as Resumes go I’m sure everyone is quite fresh thanks to the last few lessons.