Short-term paycuts vs Chapter 11
03-17-2020, 09:28 AM
#31
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 7
I guess you don’t remember Paul Whiteford and Mike Glawe telling us during C2003, “Don’t let it go to the judge.”
Regardless, once you’re in Chapter 11, management tells the judge what they need and the judge gives it to them. Have the laws changed back to where a bankrupt company goes into receivership or does management still call their own shots?
Management still call their own shots. That’s the danger of Chapter 11. There are no pensions to shed onto the government, so management will get what they want in CH11. Hopefully it never gets there.
Regardless, once you’re in Chapter 11, management tells the judge what they need and the judge gives it to them. Have the laws changed back to where a bankrupt company goes into receivership or does management still call their own shots?
Management still call their own shots. That’s the danger of Chapter 11. There are no pensions to shed onto the government, so management will get what they want in CH11. Hopefully it never gets there.
03-17-2020, 09:48 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 247
I've been at this for four decades, furloughed, strike, ESOP, BK, merger and now this.
Two things that bug me.
1. Selfish, egotistical pilots who think it's only about them.
2. Pilots who don't get they have a representative Union which will do their best to cut a deal.
It does no good to discuss what you personally are willing to take, give or whatever here or anywhere. It's not about you there's 13K other pilots with issues who are represented by ALPA.
You may hate what they come up with and quite frankly what they come up with may kill the goose or it might save it for another day. It is what it is.
Oh, and try to tell your FAs or neighbors how bad it was to be paid $95 an hour. They will probably shake their head and walk away.
Two things that bug me.
1. Selfish, egotistical pilots who think it's only about them.
2. Pilots who don't get they have a representative Union which will do their best to cut a deal.
It does no good to discuss what you personally are willing to take, give or whatever here or anywhere. It's not about you there's 13K other pilots with issues who are represented by ALPA.
You may hate what they come up with and quite frankly what they come up with may kill the goose or it might save it for another day. It is what it is.
Oh, and try to tell your FAs or neighbors how bad it was to be paid $95 an hour. They will probably shake their head and walk away.
I agree though, why not wait for the union to come back with something?
03-18-2020, 06:20 AM
#34
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Position: DAL 330
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Scoop
03-18-2020, 03:51 PM
#35
Follower
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 57
Duriing the last bankruptcy, the neighbors thought I worked 80 hours a month. Like 20 hours per week.
03-18-2020, 06:25 PM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
Short term pay cuts not a good option for pilots. We can't manage what we can't manage. Giving up our pay still doesn't give us any control over the decision making.
Fly your trip for the negotiated pay rate and go home.
Taking a pay cut only helps the institutional investor, it doesn't help the employees. if management needs a loan they can get one with their good credit and/or any government programs.
We may all need to take out a few loans. Heck, ,if we negotiate give-backs, all pilots are going to be at the bank lining up. Better way is just to have management at the bank getting access to the capital they need.
The pilot group isn't a bank. We aren't a coin operated one-arm bandit. Banks give and lend money. Pilots...no, we've given way too much and haven't had it returned.
Not being mean or petty, but being real. If you were working on active duty in the military you wouldn't be negotiating a new pay rate for a first lieutenant or a major....same applies here.
Fly your trip for the negotiated pay rate and go home.
Taking a pay cut only helps the institutional investor, it doesn't help the employees. if management needs a loan they can get one with their good credit and/or any government programs.
We may all need to take out a few loans. Heck, ,if we negotiate give-backs, all pilots are going to be at the bank lining up. Better way is just to have management at the bank getting access to the capital they need.
The pilot group isn't a bank. We aren't a coin operated one-arm bandit. Banks give and lend money. Pilots...no, we've given way too much and haven't had it returned.
Not being mean or petty, but being real. If you were working on active duty in the military you wouldn't be negotiating a new pay rate for a first lieutenant or a major....same applies here.
03-18-2020, 06:27 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Posts: 2,159
03-18-2020, 11:55 PM
#38
Don't say Guppy
Joined APC: Dec 2010
Position: Guppy driver
Posts: 1,926
If I were the government I would not provide funding or loans to any company without instant, non-negotiated compensation changes for executives and highly compensated employees. Companies that bought back their own shares instead of making the company healthier would have to surrender those shares to the Treasury in exchange for funding, and they only get them back if they can pay the Treasury back.
No negotiations. Take it or leave it. "No" means Chapter 11 at a minimum, probably Chapter 7 because no lender would provide DIP financing in these circumstances.
Just like when we declare an emergency in an airplane, the country has declared an emergency. They will do what they need to do to survive as a society.
I would expect it before the middle of next week.
No negotiations. Take it or leave it. "No" means Chapter 11 at a minimum, probably Chapter 7 because no lender would provide DIP financing in these circumstances.
Just like when we declare an emergency in an airplane, the country has declared an emergency. They will do what they need to do to survive as a society.
I would expect it before the middle of next week.
03-19-2020, 02:24 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,597
Be careful what you wish for. Highly compensated employees may include those making over 100k a year, ie, all of us pilots.
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