Short-term paycuts vs Chapter 11
03-17-2020, 06:36 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2019
Posts: 432
AA has set the bar at a reasonable height to handle this crisis. We had best be right about their same level if not higher. Zero reason we should accept anything less than what AA pilots are offered.
I understand we might need to show the government we are doing a lot of actions to conserve cash. Reduced lines, leave of absence and early outs should be more than adequate to show the govt we are taking the necessary steps to conserve vs taking pay rate cuts.
I hope Insler will communicate exactly what stipulations the govt has placed on a bailout and then allow us to digest what actions our MEC is comfortable presenting us with. Either way I know it’s going to suck, but as a guy with 5 years on property here and 10 years at the regionals I’ve seen a lot of mismanagement of cash over the years by management and because of that I still hold my sign firmly that reads “concession stand is closed”.
I understand we might need to show the government we are doing a lot of actions to conserve cash. Reduced lines, leave of absence and early outs should be more than adequate to show the govt we are taking the necessary steps to conserve vs taking pay rate cuts.
I hope Insler will communicate exactly what stipulations the govt has placed on a bailout and then allow us to digest what actions our MEC is comfortable presenting us with. Either way I know it’s going to suck, but as a guy with 5 years on property here and 10 years at the regionals I’ve seen a lot of mismanagement of cash over the years by management and because of that I still hold my sign firmly that reads “concession stand is closed”.
03-17-2020, 07:15 AM
#23
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 22
AA has set the bar at a reasonable height to handle this crisis. We had best be right about their same level if not higher. Zero reason we should accept anything less than what AA pilots are offered.
I understand we might need to show the government we are doing a lot of actions to conserve cash. Reduced lines, leave of absence and early outs should be more than adequate to show the govt we are taking the necessary steps to conserve vs taking pay rate cuts.
I hope Insler will communicate exactly what stipulations the govt has placed on a bailout and then allow us to digest what actions our MEC is comfortable presenting us with. Either way I know it’s going to suck, but as a guy with 5 years on property here and 10 years at the regionals I’ve seen a lot of mismanagement of cash over the years by management and because of that I still hold my sign firmly that reads “concession stand is closed”.
I understand we might need to show the government we are doing a lot of actions to conserve cash. Reduced lines, leave of absence and early outs should be more than adequate to show the govt we are taking the necessary steps to conserve vs taking pay rate cuts.
I hope Insler will communicate exactly what stipulations the govt has placed on a bailout and then allow us to digest what actions our MEC is comfortable presenting us with. Either way I know it’s going to suck, but as a guy with 5 years on property here and 10 years at the regionals I’ve seen a lot of mismanagement of cash over the years by management and because of that I still hold my sign firmly that reads “concession stand is closed”.
However, when Mnuchin hears about Delta guys making $1M, widebody Captains making $120,000 a month at United and First Officers driving Teslas, you know he’s going to balk at giving out billions.
Believe me, if they don’t know it already, I’m sure management will be more than happy to show it to them.
03-17-2020, 07:25 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
I respect everyone’s opinions here, except maybe the guy who called me a freaking idiot.
Things to ponder:
1) They already have a baseline for concessions: it’s called C2003 with everyone on the property voting YES, with the exception of 330 guys.
2) Spain just closed their borders. You now need a form to leave your house in France, San Francisco limiting movement. How long before Trump limits FAA airspace?
3) We don’t know what the management ask is yet. I’m not going to vote yes on any POS contract they throw out there like many of you did in 2003 and 2005.
4) If the place goes Chapter 11 anyhow, then you gave concessions a few months early. They can pay you now or pay you later is the way I see it.
Big John
Things to ponder:
1) They already have a baseline for concessions: it’s called C2003 with everyone on the property voting YES, with the exception of 330 guys.
2) Spain just closed their borders. You now need a form to leave your house in France, San Francisco limiting movement. How long before Trump limits FAA airspace?
3) We don’t know what the management ask is yet. I’m not going to vote yes on any POS contract they throw out there like many of you did in 2003 and 2005.
4) If the place goes Chapter 11 anyhow, then you gave concessions a few months early. They can pay you now or pay you later is the way I see it.
Big John
You must be new here and not have lived through the lost decade. The answer is no. We still haven't recovered from the last time and you want to give some more?
Bankruptcy? Possibly, but much harder to do now than last time. I'll take my chances with the judge. Management can ask all they want, as many times as they want, they will get the same answer. No.
Certainly sounds and looks like a management troll based on evidence.
03-17-2020, 07:32 AM
#25
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 12,115
The market is still the market. When the economy comes back there will be a certain amount of flying to be done and only a certain number of people that can do it. Until it comes back, nothing else really matters, once it does come back, again nothing really matters...
03-17-2020, 08:29 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,068
Would a management troll say this?
“Look, Oscar is a good CEO, but I hate the rest of the a**holes (Tilton, Kirby, Goodwin, Dutta, Attarian) that have run this company as much as the next United guy.”
I’ll put my damage up against anyone on this property. How many times did your posts end up in the redacted federal lawsuit documents?
“Look, Oscar is a good CEO, but I hate the rest of the a**holes (Tilton, Kirby, Goodwin, Dutta, Attarian) that have run this company as much as the next United guy.”
I’ll put my damage up against anyone on this property. How many times did your posts end up in the redacted federal lawsuit documents?
He/she would if they were serious about completing the task assigned. Start the groundwork early and get a conversation going, that’s most important. Doesn’t matter what the thoughts/beliefs are, just keep getting them to engage in a conversation and it legitimizes the hypothetical A vs B notion. in their heads. It should be easy enough, pilots generally can’t resist weighing in hard on any & everything even when history and sometimes their own gut tells them to shut up. Shoot how many of them still don’t realize a part of why they’re always so spun about the media 24/7? And better yet, this right here is often the loudest among them, they’ll spread it around their cockpits, crewrooms and texts to the others. Would a management troll....oh and you’re not an idiot.
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03-17-2020, 08:33 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2019
Posts: 247
Ha ha ha. You guys have it all backwards.
You give up concessions to stay out of Chapter 11. If you go into Chapter 11, then you fight.
You guys are fighting concessions, without which there will be no federal bailout. This will most certainly drive us into Chapter 11. Will you fight when the corporation declares Chapter 11?
History says you won’t.
You are infants.
You give up concessions to stay out of Chapter 11. If you go into Chapter 11, then you fight.
You guys are fighting concessions, without which there will be no federal bailout. This will most certainly drive us into Chapter 11. Will you fight when the corporation declares Chapter 11?
History says you won’t.
You are infants.
03-17-2020, 09:11 AM
#29
Banned
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2020
Posts: 22
Big John,
You must be new here and not have lived through the lost decade. The answer is no. We still haven't recovered from the last time and you want to give some more?
Bankruptcy? Possibly, but much harder to do now than last time. I'll take my chances with the judge. Management can ask all they want, as many times as they want, they will get the same answer. No.
Certainly sounds and looks like a management troll based on evidence.
You must be new here and not have lived through the lost decade. The answer is no. We still haven't recovered from the last time and you want to give some more?
Bankruptcy? Possibly, but much harder to do now than last time. I'll take my chances with the judge. Management can ask all they want, as many times as they want, they will get the same answer. No.
Certainly sounds and looks like a management troll based on evidence.
Regardless, once you’re in Chapter 11, management tells the judge what they need and the judge gives it to them. Have the laws changed back to where a bankrupt company goes into receivership or does management still call their own shots?
Management still call their own shots. That’s the danger of Chapter 11. There are no pensions to shed onto the government, so management will get what they want in CH11. Hopefully it never gets there.
03-17-2020, 09:24 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
I've been at this for four decades, furloughed, strike, ESOP, BK, merger and now this.
Two things that bug me.
1. Selfish, egotistical pilots who think it's only about them.
2. Pilots who don't get they have a representative Union which will do their best to cut a deal.
It does no good to discuss what you personally are willing to take, give or whatever here or anywhere. It's not about you there's 13K other pilots with issues who are represented by ALPA.
You may hate what they come up with and quite frankly what they come up with may kill the goose or it might save it for another day. It is what it is.
Oh, and try to tell your FAs or neighbors how bad it was to be paid $95 an hour. They will probably shake their head and walk away.
Two things that bug me.
1. Selfish, egotistical pilots who think it's only about them.
2. Pilots who don't get they have a representative Union which will do their best to cut a deal.
It does no good to discuss what you personally are willing to take, give or whatever here or anywhere. It's not about you there's 13K other pilots with issues who are represented by ALPA.
You may hate what they come up with and quite frankly what they come up with may kill the goose or it might save it for another day. It is what it is.
Oh, and try to tell your FAs or neighbors how bad it was to be paid $95 an hour. They will probably shake their head and walk away.
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