Travel Ban From Europe
03-12-2020, 06:50 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
03-12-2020, 09:07 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A shack in Kailua
Posts: 298
I'm taking Italy's situation and applying it to the size and demographic specifics of our population. That isn't a "silly made up" projection. It's attempting to make a point that if we do not get a handle on this quickly and effectively, what IS happening in Italy right now will happen here. Completely writing this off simply in the name of the economy seems a lot more silly to me. Either way, I guess POTUS is finally agreeing with the scientists and doctors. I genuinely hope we avoid an Italian scenario; I don't want to lose my elderly parents/grandparents due to an overwhelmed healthcare system (see "flattening the curve").
03-13-2020, 05:56 AM
#25
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: Cap. 737
Posts: 293
I'm taking Italy's situation and applying it to the size and demographic specifics of our population. That isn't a "silly made up" projection. It's attempting to make a point that if we do not get a handle on this quickly and effectively, what IS happening in Italy right now will happen here. Completely writing this off simply in the name of the economy seems a lot more silly to me. Either way, I guess POTUS is finally agreeing with the scientists and doctors. I genuinely hope we avoid an Italian scenario; I don't want to lose my elderly parents/grandparents due to an overwhelmed healthcare system (see "flattening the curve").
https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coron...e-f4d3d9cd99ca
03-13-2020, 06:25 AM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Position: 787
Posts: 469
I lived in northern Italy for a year on an undergrad exchange. The area I lived in was primarily German speaking and used to be part of Austria (Tyrol Sud) until the end of WWII. It is a developed, modern region with the largest per capita income and strongest economy (in normal times) in all of Italy, and it has (had) a reputation for the best hospitals, physicians and healthcare in southern Europe when I lived there 15 years ago.
You're right that the demographics in Italy are skewed towards the old. Italy in general is an older country with an aging demographic. With that said, I'm not sure that pointing this out makes any difference at all. I'm not the least bit worried about what COVID-19 will do me; I'm a healthy 40-something, prior military with Tricare for life that also covers my wife and kids, and we live in Hawaii. I am worried for my parents, who are in their 70's, and my grandmother and grandfather, who are in their early 90's. What this article I posted makes clear is that this virus is overwhelming a first-rate, top notch healthcare system in a developed country, and it is getting to a point where guidelines are being issued on who to triage. This doesn't make me worried for myself, but it makes me worried for my parents and grandparents. The US has plenty of regions with inadequate healthcare, a physician shortage, and a high population density. If what is happening in Italy gets here, you won't see 20 year olds or children dying, but you'll see a lot of seniors dying. This isn't fear mongering, it's reality.
You're right that the demographics in Italy are skewed towards the old. Italy in general is an older country with an aging demographic. With that said, I'm not sure that pointing this out makes any difference at all. I'm not the least bit worried about what COVID-19 will do me; I'm a healthy 40-something, prior military with Tricare for life that also covers my wife and kids, and we live in Hawaii. I am worried for my parents, who are in their 70's, and my grandmother and grandfather, who are in their early 90's. What this article I posted makes clear is that this virus is overwhelming a first-rate, top notch healthcare system in a developed country, and it is getting to a point where guidelines are being issued on who to triage. This doesn't make me worried for myself, but it makes me worried for my parents and grandparents. The US has plenty of regions with inadequate healthcare, a physician shortage, and a high population density. If what is happening in Italy gets here, you won't see 20 year olds or children dying, but you'll see a lot of seniors dying. This isn't fear mongering, it's reality.
03-13-2020, 07:10 AM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: guppy CA
Posts: 5,171
I'm taking Italy's situation and applying it to the size and demographic specifics of our population. That isn't a "silly made up" projection. It's attempting to make a point that if we do not get a handle on this quickly and effectively, what IS happening in Italy right now will happen here. Completely writing this off simply in the name of the economy seems a lot more silly to me. Either way, I guess POTUS is finally agreeing with the scientists and doctors. I genuinely hope we avoid an Italian scenario; I don't want to lose my elderly parents/grandparents due to an overwhelmed healthcare system (see "flattening the curve").
OK, here are three real world (NOT made up) issues on the other side of this:
1) Thanks to people like you freaking out, schools are closing for extended periods throughout the US. That's great for children. Except for the children of impoverished families who get their meals there through the national school lunch program and the school breakfast program. That's only 30 million children - which is an actual no made up number. But screw 'em; they're kids and they'll eventually recover from malnutrition.
2) A close relative of mine is a nurse in a large city. A patient came into one of her employer's clinics for a refill of his blood pressure medicine. Blue collar worker with a wife and kids, just getting by paycheck to paycheck. He was recovering from a slight flu so out of abundance of caution, they tested him for coronavirus. Positive. My relative called him and told him to self-quarantine himself and his family. He's not being tracked by anyone though due to HIPAA. Do you or anyone else think he won't be working before the end of 14 days?
Again, he had no idea he had coronavirus, as many who have it and recover have no idea that they have it.
3) I was in an airport hotel's concierge lounge a couple of nights ago. There were two couples nearby who were clearly past 70 and engaging in a loud conversation. They were flying off somewhere in the US the next day on a vacation. What else were they discussing? Taking a cruise shortly after returning from their current vacation because the prices are so good. Now, out of these four, I'd estimate a 50% mortality rate should they all catch coronavirus. If they aren't concerned about dying, I'm not going to get all worked up about your silly made up scare porn numbers.
Solution? Quarantine those that are at high risk and let the economy continue without quarantining those that are not likely to have poor outcomes should they catch coronavirus.
Lastly, I will pillory anyone who is advocating this asinine approach to coronavirus now and then turns around and complains later about the economy, the stock market, the airline industry, or why we aren't seeing a new contract any time soon.
This quarantine approach is like having a patient come in with a common cold and then amputate all of their limbs as a medical cure. Sure, the patient will probably survive, but the cure is worse than the disease.
03-13-2020, 09:08 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Position: A Nobody
Posts: 1,559
Is CV19 real? Yes.
Will millions die because they got it? Who knows, millions die all the time and we do little about the root causes. So why is this pandemic so much in the news?
In my opinion politics have entered into the mania. If you think President Trump's Euro ban is strictly to save lives, think again. Yes if fairies were real and the world was a fair and peaceful place where leaders always look out for others then the ban would strictly to be prevent the spreading of CV.
Call me cynical or something else, this is a both a geo-political war as much as it is a health crisis.
Really the only way to actually stop the virus is for everyone, yes everyone as in the entire world, to stay home and have zero contact with everyone, including family members. Only then may we wake up in a clean fairy tale world, free of CV and evil self serving people.
May you all prosper, treat others well and get through this crisis
Will millions die because they got it? Who knows, millions die all the time and we do little about the root causes. So why is this pandemic so much in the news?
In my opinion politics have entered into the mania. If you think President Trump's Euro ban is strictly to save lives, think again. Yes if fairies were real and the world was a fair and peaceful place where leaders always look out for others then the ban would strictly to be prevent the spreading of CV.
Call me cynical or something else, this is a both a geo-political war as much as it is a health crisis.
Really the only way to actually stop the virus is for everyone, yes everyone as in the entire world, to stay home and have zero contact with everyone, including family members. Only then may we wake up in a clean fairy tale world, free of CV and evil self serving people.
May you all prosper, treat others well and get through this crisis
03-13-2020, 10:03 AM
#29
Strike averted!
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Position: B737
Posts: 3,781
I lived in northern Italy for a year on an undergrad exchange. The area I lived in was primarily German speaking and used to be part of Austria (Tyrol Sud) until the end of WWII. It is a developed, modern region with the largest per capita income and strongest economy (in normal times) in all of Italy, and it has (had) a reputation for the best hospitals, physicians and healthcare in southern Europe when I lived there 15 years ago.
Tyrolean German was my first language as my mother came to the USA in 1975 from there. Not Italians by blood, and autonomous by law! Mom came from northwest of Bozen (Bolzano).
Besides being apple farmers and hunters, all of my cousins are doctors or nurses.
They are saying that things are pretty bad—yet Italian tourists still ride around in busses and cross borders on day trips.
03-13-2020, 10:18 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2013
Position: A shack in Kailua
Posts: 298
1.75 million deaths is slightly higher than absolute worst case forecasts by experts. So yes, it's completely made up scare porn, just as absolute worst case numbers by experts are scare porn. TOTAL worldwide deaths is just over 5,000 and you are using a number more than 300 times higher for just the US as anything other than made up scare porn to make a point?
OK, here are three real world (NOT made up) issues on the other side of this:
1) Thanks to people like you freaking out, schools are closing for extended periods throughout the US. That's great for children. Except for the children of impoverished families who get their meals there through the national school lunch program and the school breakfast program. That's only 30 million children - which is an actual no made up number. But screw 'em; they're kids and they'll eventually recover from malnutrition.
2) A close relative of mine is a nurse in a large city. A patient came into one of her employer's clinics for a refill of his blood pressure medicine. Blue collar worker with a wife and kids, just getting by paycheck to paycheck. He was recovering from a slight flu so out of abundance of caution, they tested him for coronavirus. Positive. My relative called him and told him to self-quarantine himself and his family. He's not being tracked by anyone though due to HIPAA. Do you or anyone else think he won't be working before the end of 14 days?
Again, he had no idea he had coronavirus, as many who have it and recover have no idea that they have it.
3) I was in an airport hotel's concierge lounge a couple of nights ago. There were two couples nearby who were clearly past 70 and engaging in a loud conversation. They were flying off somewhere in the US the next day on a vacation. What else were they discussing? Taking a cruise shortly after returning from their current vacation because the prices are so good. Now, out of these four, I'd estimate a 50% mortality rate should they all catch coronavirus. If they aren't concerned about dying, I'm not going to get all worked up about your silly made up scare porn numbers.
Solution? Quarantine those that are at high risk and let the economy continue without quarantining those that are not likely to have poor outcomes should they catch coronavirus.
Lastly, I will pillory anyone who is advocating this asinine approach to coronavirus now and then turns around and complains later about the economy, the stock market, the airline industry, or why we aren't seeing a new contract any time soon.
This quarantine approach is like having a patient come in with a common cold and then amputate all of their limbs as a medical cure. Sure, the patient will probably survive, but the cure is worse than the disease.
OK, here are three real world (NOT made up) issues on the other side of this:
1) Thanks to people like you freaking out, schools are closing for extended periods throughout the US. That's great for children. Except for the children of impoverished families who get their meals there through the national school lunch program and the school breakfast program. That's only 30 million children - which is an actual no made up number. But screw 'em; they're kids and they'll eventually recover from malnutrition.
2) A close relative of mine is a nurse in a large city. A patient came into one of her employer's clinics for a refill of his blood pressure medicine. Blue collar worker with a wife and kids, just getting by paycheck to paycheck. He was recovering from a slight flu so out of abundance of caution, they tested him for coronavirus. Positive. My relative called him and told him to self-quarantine himself and his family. He's not being tracked by anyone though due to HIPAA. Do you or anyone else think he won't be working before the end of 14 days?
Again, he had no idea he had coronavirus, as many who have it and recover have no idea that they have it.
3) I was in an airport hotel's concierge lounge a couple of nights ago. There were two couples nearby who were clearly past 70 and engaging in a loud conversation. They were flying off somewhere in the US the next day on a vacation. What else were they discussing? Taking a cruise shortly after returning from their current vacation because the prices are so good. Now, out of these four, I'd estimate a 50% mortality rate should they all catch coronavirus. If they aren't concerned about dying, I'm not going to get all worked up about your silly made up scare porn numbers.
Solution? Quarantine those that are at high risk and let the economy continue without quarantining those that are not likely to have poor outcomes should they catch coronavirus.
Lastly, I will pillory anyone who is advocating this asinine approach to coronavirus now and then turns around and complains later about the economy, the stock market, the airline industry, or why we aren't seeing a new contract any time soon.
This quarantine approach is like having a patient come in with a common cold and then amputate all of their limbs as a medical cure. Sure, the patient will probably survive, but the cure is worse than the disease.
At this point we're just going in circles about the risks and mitigation strategy for COVID-19. I'm listening to you and I don't see you listening to me whatsoever, just getting continuously more disrespectful, snarky and flippant. So, rather than feed this, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Best wishes for you and your family (sincerely); fly safe.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
