usmc-sgt

Our airline is doing the same idea. The only caveat I’d like to see is more militarized checks and balances of the process. Flying is for everyone, commercial aviation is not. There needs to be a process where they just wash you out if you aren’t making the appropriate progress. Flight schools and training centers tend to do the opposite. It tends to be train, teach, guide, re train, until they can hit a passable standard. We all make mistakes, but there needs to be a point of separation.

Grumble

Lets put this one to bed... the FO didn’t bend that 757 so stop saying it.

Cazadores

I think this discussion is getting wrapped around the wrong axle, with a lot of anecdotal examples being thrown about while ignoring the big picture.

Seems to me the only reason to have an initio programs with thousands of experienced qualified people lined up at the door is to undercut the value the profession and perpetuate the regional B scale.

In the past United trained and hired CFIs because there were no other options, that's not the case today.

There is a reason European pilots make considerably less than US pilots, and there is a reason the US air transportation system is heads above any other, including Europe, in safety. We should be discussing this, in my view.

When every jet with United painted on the side is flown by pilots on the United seniority list, and there are no other options, then ab initio is an option pilots might be willing to allow. Until then.....

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Kenny

Well, this should be good. Go on, tell us why you’ve come to this conclusion. Perhaps you could also tell us what experience you actually have of flying outside of the US.

aviator249

I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but that’s not really what is happening right now. Definitely not advocating for the bypass of our regional union pilots and other well qualified applicants. It seems like the program was more proof it could be done. Some people’s comments are based on disproven talking points without anything to back them up.

1. “Its a safety Issue” no data to support that claim and on the contrary we’ve had incidents with people coming from much higher experience levels.

2. “there’s thousands of other more experienced applicants that could be hired” Most all the pilots hired (99% of them in 2019) are from those streams. Again, proof of concept.

3. “A low time pilot can’t go straight to flying jets:” Disproven everyday with our regional partners and the pilots they hire who fly the same passengers into the same airports, with the same weather, in arguably some less capable aircraft. We also take single pilot military guys and train them successfully all the time to fly as a crew and the “airline way.”

The program was a proof of concept and from the secondary information I’ve heard over the past 3 years or so, it was successful with all its participants. I’m happy for the kids who took advantage of it. Good for them. They are our brothers and sisters now and it’s in our best interest to provide mentorship to them instead of painting them with unwarranted doubt until they give us a reason to do so. Disappointing to see that a few people have a few insecurities about how some people came to the company and want to project those insecurities with weak talking points simply because they do not like it or have friends that haven’t gotten the call.

Cazadores

Hehe, I guess you're right, why dont you tell us all your exploits sky king, while I simply look at the compensation and safety records of European airlines and compare them to ours.

Anyway, I get the proof of concept, but it's been done before and proving it is unnecessary, I'll stand by my belief of this programs purpose, and how professional pilots should respond.

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aviator249

I think this is actually one of the first times this sort of thing has been tried and proven with the modern day status quo of major airline pilot hiring in the USA. Possibly the also small JetBlue Cadet program is another one. The second the company starts bypassing hundreds of Regional/military/other more “high time” avenues to exclusively hire only hundreds of lower time applicants from non traditional streams and also suggests lowering pay, Ill agree with you 100%, but that’s not what’s happening at all. Until then....

John Carr

Kenny has definitely “been there/done that” in the realm/sphere of flying for int’l carriers, on various continents.

Cazadores

Fair enough, I was actually just referring to the idea of bringing low time light piston pilots directly to mainline, or ab initio pilots, which United has done in the past, albeit in a very different industry environment.

I would even say the learning curve for some of these guys was a lot steeper, people in my Dads new hire class in the sixties were hired as CFIs, and went to 727s....of course it was on the panel. They freely admitted they had to work tons harder than guys with military jet backgrounds like my Dad, and my Dad frequently expressed his respect for how much they studied and how dedicated they were to being great pilots.

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Cazadores

I wasn't questioning his qualifications, just calling him out on a snarky, arrogant response of little value. I'm sure he has a lot to share of great value.

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