Age 67+ Discussion
01-11-2020, 05:35 AM
#32
Banned
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,358
The first officer was very weak and should have been washed out during initial training. Atlas has low pay and a bad contract. In this market they are simply taking what they can get. It isn’t the same highly experienced group that it was 10-15 years ago.
The initial report isn’t flattering towards the F/O at all.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/63000-63...156.pdf#page74
The docket has been made public if you want to read 3,000 pages.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...EC7294646BA690
The initial report isn’t flattering towards the F/O at all.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/public/63000-63...156.pdf#page74
The docket has been made public if you want to read 3,000 pages.
https://dms.ntsb.gov/pubdms/search/h...EC7294646BA690
01-11-2020, 02:04 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Posts: 10,518
Well lets step back for a moment and see what other safety impotant professions / jobs have any type of mandated age retirement?
1. flight attendant. No limit at all correct? Open the door at recurrent and you're good.
2. Dr / Md. not age restrictions that i know of. My AME is 71 , I had a surgery a few years ago and the surgeon was the #1 guy in his field at 68 yo.
3. Senator govt official. Bernie is 78. Donnie is 74. I have very little in common with both.
4. Businessperson - the CEO of my private airline is 85 .
5. parent. 14 maybe - .....
1. flight attendant. No limit at all correct? Open the door at recurrent and you're good.
2. Dr / Md. not age restrictions that i know of. My AME is 71 , I had a surgery a few years ago and the surgeon was the #1 guy in his field at 68 yo.
3. Senator govt official. Bernie is 78. Donnie is 74. I have very little in common with both.
4. Businessperson - the CEO of my private airline is 85 .
5. parent. 14 maybe - .....
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01-12-2020, 06:35 AM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: May 2014
Position: Tom’s Whipping boy.
Posts: 1,182
01-12-2020, 06:45 AM
#36
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 531
Not universally true, but often enough and at the younger end of the spectrum as well.
One of many cases to point is an airline whose wages and work rules puts them in a spot where they have to hire low experienced pilots with sketchy employment and training history that would push the nose of a heavy jet into a 49 degrees nose down attitude during approach because of a faulty airspeed indication.
We often pay for what we get.
One of many cases to point is an airline whose wages and work rules puts them in a spot where they have to hire low experienced pilots with sketchy employment and training history that would push the nose of a heavy jet into a 49 degrees nose down attitude during approach because of a faulty airspeed indication.
We often pay for what we get.
My experience is older pilots (maybe all pilots) are a bad judge of competency, that's why I support regulation when there is reasonable doubt they can no longer adequately operate an aircraft.
I've also wondered whether lower paying companies have more accidents. I'm interested in safety data as it relates to pay, gender, age, etc., but I doubt such will never be published (I'd gander the results of such would be astonishing).
01-12-2020, 07:14 AM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
Well lets step back for a moment and see what other safety impotant professions / jobs have any type of mandated age retirement?
1. flight attendant. No limit at all correct? Open the door at recurrent and you're good.
2. Dr / Md. not age restrictions that i know of. My AME is 71 , I had a surgery a few years ago and the surgeon was the #1 guy in his field at 68 yo.
3. Senator govt official. Bernie is 78. Donnie is 74. I have very little in common with both.
4. Businessperson - the CEO of my private airline is 85 .
5. parent. 14 maybe - .....
1. flight attendant. No limit at all correct? Open the door at recurrent and you're good.
2. Dr / Md. not age restrictions that i know of. My AME is 71 , I had a surgery a few years ago and the surgeon was the #1 guy in his field at 68 yo.
3. Senator govt official. Bernie is 78. Donnie is 74. I have very little in common with both.
4. Businessperson - the CEO of my private airline is 85 .
5. parent. 14 maybe - .....
Tell yourself whatever you want, but the closer to 65 a Captain gets the more I have to watch them and the less likely they are to change with/adhere to SOP changes. You’re not special. (Oh and exactly non of those people you listed above are making decisions at 8 miles a minute).
Anyone hired before 2007 already
1.) knew that you had an age 60 shelf life
2.) got to your seat five years early because those in front of you left at 60
3.) got ANOTHER 5 years at the expense of everyone behind you.
If that’s not enough, then 2 more years certainly won’t be. Just try to keel over in the hotel and not the airplane so we don’t have to inconvenience the passengers by diverting to drop you off.
Not universally true, but often enough and at the younger end of the spectrum as well.
One of many cases to point is an airline whose wages and work rules puts them in a spot where they have to hire low experienced pilots with sketchy employment and training history that would push the nose of a heavy jet into a 49 degrees nose down attitude during approach because of a faulty airspeed indication.
We often pay for what we get.
One of many cases to point is an airline whose wages and work rules puts them in a spot where they have to hire low experienced pilots with sketchy employment and training history that would push the nose of a heavy jet into a 49 degrees nose down attitude during approach because of a faulty airspeed indication.
We often pay for what we get.
BTW, your example above? That has happened here, just without the smoking hole. Still stuck the hull however.
01-12-2020, 07:35 AM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,860
Tell yourself whatever you want, but the closer to 65 a Captain gets the more I have to watch them and the less likely they are to change with/adhere to SOP changes. You’re not special. (Oh and exactly non of those people you listed above are making decisions at 8 miles a minute).
Anyone hired before 2007 already
1.) knew that you had an age 60 shelf life
2.) got to your seat five years early because those in front of you left at 60
3.) got ANOTHER 5 years at the expense of everyone behind you.
If that’s not enough, then 2 more years certainly won’t be. Just try to keel over in the hotel and not the airplane so we don’t have to inconvenience the passengers by diverting to drop you off.
If you wanna play that game, how old and experienced was the Captain who literally sat and pondered a gear light while running his DC-8 out of fuel and crashing it in PDX?
BTW, your example above? That has happened here, just without the smoking hole. Still stuck the hull however.
Anyone hired before 2007 already
1.) knew that you had an age 60 shelf life
2.) got to your seat five years early because those in front of you left at 60
3.) got ANOTHER 5 years at the expense of everyone behind you.
If that’s not enough, then 2 more years certainly won’t be. Just try to keel over in the hotel and not the airplane so we don’t have to inconvenience the passengers by diverting to drop you off.
If you wanna play that game, how old and experienced was the Captain who literally sat and pondered a gear light while running his DC-8 out of fuel and crashing it in PDX?
BTW, your example above? That has happened here, just without the smoking hole. Still stuck the hull however.
01-12-2020, 07:50 AM
#39
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
Tell yourself whatever you want, but the closer to 65 a Captain gets the more I have to watch them and the less likely they are to change with/adhere to SOP changes. You’re not special. (Oh and exactly non of those people you listed above are making decisions at 8 miles a minute).
Anyone hired before 2007 already
1.) knew that you had an age 60 shelf life
2.) got to your seat five years early because those in front of you left at 60
3.) got ANOTHER 5 years at the expense of everyone behind you.
If that’s not enough, then 2 more years certainly won’t be. Just try to keel over in the hotel and not the airplane so we don’t have to inconvenience the passengers by diverting to drop you off.
If you wanna play that game, how old and experienced was the Captain who literally sat and pondered a gear light while running his DC-8 out of fuel and crashing it in PDX?
BTW, your example above? That has happened here, just without the smoking hole. Still stuck the hull however.
Anyone hired before 2007 already
1.) knew that you had an age 60 shelf life
2.) got to your seat five years early because those in front of you left at 60
3.) got ANOTHER 5 years at the expense of everyone behind you.
If that’s not enough, then 2 more years certainly won’t be. Just try to keel over in the hotel and not the airplane so we don’t have to inconvenience the passengers by diverting to drop you off.
If you wanna play that game, how old and experienced was the Captain who literally sat and pondered a gear light while running his DC-8 out of fuel and crashing it in PDX?
BTW, your example above? That has happened here, just without the smoking hole. Still stuck the hull however.
Next time follow it up with a smiley face for levity.
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