United and JetBlue merger
12-15-2019, 09:07 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 278
Don’t hesitate to start at United. Here’s why.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
12-16-2019, 04:14 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: Airbus 320 Right Seat
Posts: 1,440
All these people that keep saying will never happen .... basically means it’s going down next week ..
We are the last to know squat
We are the last to know squat
12-16-2019, 04:57 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 756
Posts: 79
Word is, we will organically grow our own pilot group. I kind of feel sad for guys out there at JetBlue fantasizing about a merger, apply, get a CJO and you will always be welcome aboard.
12-16-2019, 05:57 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,191
Most guys at b6 don’t want to merge. Only reason anyone gives is just to get a new management group. Ours seems like a ship without a rudder most of the time.
12-16-2019, 06:28 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2010
Posts: 269
With Kirby being announced as the new king of the United castle, I would say all bets are off. He’s very publicly announced how big of a mistake it was for United to pull out of JFK while he was at AA. JetBlue is a instant re-entry into that market.
Scott has also been very outspoken about wanting to compete directly and defend the hubs. Our current airplane order, as noted in earlier posts, backs this up. 2020 will be a huge year for UAL. 64 mainline airplanes to be delivered with 21(ish)? being wide bodies.
I’m as cautious about Kirby as the average line dude at UAL, but I’m excited to have a fighter at the helm. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Good luck with your decision.
Scott has also been very outspoken about wanting to compete directly and defend the hubs. Our current airplane order, as noted in earlier posts, backs this up. 2020 will be a huge year for UAL. 64 mainline airplanes to be delivered with 21(ish)? being wide bodies.
I’m as cautious about Kirby as the average line dude at UAL, but I’m excited to have a fighter at the helm. Nothing would surprise me at this point. Good luck with your decision.
12-16-2019, 07:17 AM
#46
Not retiring avatar
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: 777 CAP
Posts: 771
We’re already NYCs largest airline without JFK. A little over 1m more passengers than Delta per year. We would just add JBs 17m NYC pax without resistance? Sure. 
12-16-2019, 07:27 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,551
There was a grand total of 4 people who knew about and negotiated the SWA/Airtan merger.
Does anyone really think any pilot knows anything?
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Does anyone really think any pilot knows anything?
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12-16-2019, 08:13 AM
#48
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2019
Posts: 442
Judging by past exchanges here on APC, I don't think the UAL pilot group would welcome JB pilots anywhere on the seniority list except the bottom or otherwise bigly fenced. So hopefully this rumor that just won't die can remain just a rumor. I think most would be happiest if that were the case.
12-16-2019, 08:16 AM
#49
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 756
Posts: 79
Are you guys at JetBlue really that delusional? What proof do you have in hand to make you think we are in talk over a possible merger?
12-16-2019, 08:19 AM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,191
Honestly the only place I ever hear a United rumor is when I’m junpseatinf on United. That one died a long time ago, on the southwest Jumpseat I hear about an upcoming southwest merger. We are always in the merger rumor mills.
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