United and JetBlue merger
12-15-2019, 11:31 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2015
Posts: 261
Thank you for replies. After going through all them I realized how stupid my post was. I had two friends call me today telling me not to go and I started to second guess myself. United was always the goal, I should have waited a bit longer before posting on emotional basis.
12-15-2019, 11:39 AM
#33
Line Holder
Joined APC: Aug 2016
Posts: 41
It’s probably not going to happen. If it did though fence the wide bodies and enjoy life on the 777.
12-15-2019, 12:11 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 491
Don’t hesitate to start at United. Here’s why.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
Last edited by O2pilot; 12-15-2019 at 12:23 PM.
12-15-2019, 12:39 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Posts: 5,244
Never going to happen. All the things that make B6 valuable would have to be divested to get through anti-trust.
12-15-2019, 03:21 PM
#36
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2013
Position: Here
Posts: 78
Thank you for replies. After going through all them I realized how stupid my post was. I had two friends call me today telling me not to go and I started to second guess myself. United was always the goal, I should have waited a bit longer before posting on emotional basis.
I would say worst case scenario you’ll end up about the same and not fenced, if this ever happens. I really hope it never does for the better of both pilot groups... feel free to PM me just like I did to some on this forum a year ago.
Good luck !
12-15-2019, 03:26 PM
#37
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,916
Don’t hesitate to start at United. Here’s why.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
It’s always a colorful reading when pilots predict how SLIs would shake out.
12-15-2019, 04:15 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2014
Posts: 805
Plenty of ex-jetblue here and welcome. We would have to give up too much to make a merger possible. I would bet on us getting back into JFK if jetblue/Alaska happens. Alaska spent 4 billion on virgin only to dismantle them and that managerial wonder has inflated the cost of remaining low cost carriers. Tell the captains here about being handed blue gloves to go clean... they won't believe you.
12-15-2019, 05:24 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Posts: 8,916
Plenty of ex-jetblue here and welcome. We would have to give up too much to make a merger possible. I would bet on us getting back into JFK if jetblue/Alaska happens. Alaska spent 4 billion on virgin only to dismantle them and that managerial wonder has inflated the cost of remaining low cost carriers. Tell the captains here about being handed blue gloves to go clean... they won't believe you.
12-15-2019, 06:02 PM
#40
SDQ Base Chief
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: 320 CA
Posts: 5,665
Don’t hesitate to start at United. Here’s why.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
1) We have 21 more WB planes (3 777s, 18 787s) being delivered between 12/20/19 and 12/31/20. We also have 44 Airbus and guppies coming in 2020.
2) You will likely have more pilots junior to you in a year at United than you would have had at 4 years at JB.
3) You are not the only pilot to leave JB for United. I met two at an 8 ball ceremony in the same class last month. They decided it was the right move.
4) In an SLI you would likely not get your 4 years credit, and be paired with a 4 year United pilot. Because of Status and Category, plus career expectations, you’d do MUCH BETTER than your former JB colleagues. You’d be able to fly everything on the property, while your JB buddies would be fenced off the 756, 777, and 787 fleets, likely until every pilot on the list currently can hold WB Captain. Also, all the E-190 pilot slots(via stovepipe, not the actual pilots) would likely be stapled. The AA-US merger the arbitrators declared that E-190 Captain was “a lower status and category than airbus FO” so they placed those slots at the bottom. The only reason it didn’t look that way on the list is because the US Air pilots also had a ton of longevity to make up for it. Also the 1st 7,000 pilots at United all have more longevity than anyone at JB, plus we can all hold a status and category they can’t. That would pull up all the pilots on the list as well because of career expectations.
5) If we didn’t buy JB, then you’d be there still, wishing you’d have come to United.
6) United retires between 400-750 pilots a year for the next 15 years. There would be an offset when they put the list together to make sure we still get effective credit for this, because not doing it would give JB pilots a windfall. They did it at Alaska by more heavily weighing longevity, even though the fleets were both narrowbody. Add United’s status and category advantage, and you can see where this is going.
Kirby was asked at the Captain course if United was only set up for growth or are we insulted from a downturn, and he said that American and JetBlue would have a hard time in the next downturn, but we would be ok, since we have a good mix of new and old planes and can adjust the fleet accordingly. He also said it was possible to see JB fragmented, which means planes, gates, slots, etc could be divided up with another airline to satisfy the DOJ. You do not want to be at JB if it is fragmented.
The only possible downside would be you start in class, and the next day we announce we are buying JB. Your 1 week on the property might not get you the same seniority you had at JB with 4 years, but I’d say 6 months gets you there. Remember that even in the worst case scenario, you can always go fly the WB planes and the fences won’t affect you.
Also, we have 400+ vacancies on the current bid. We will be hiring like crazy for the foreseeable future, likely 1,200 in 2020.
So you’ll be fine.
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