UA to Hire 4000 Pilots Between Now and 2022
11-01-2019, 05:59 AM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
11-01-2019, 06:00 AM
#62
Not at work
Joined APC: Oct 2014
Position: 737 ca
Posts: 294
And adding the words minimum cabin crew on board to the fom for before closing the door to the hamster cage... there are passengers on board what fa would just up and walk in violation of fars?
11-01-2019, 06:05 AM
#63
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,860
Sometimes you just have to shake your head, gotta love people trying to make the wheel rounder.
11-01-2019, 06:41 AM
#64
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
The problem with the 756 isn’t with the instructors, it’s with the footprint. The course is made for someone already on the airplane or another Boeing. For someone coming from Airbus or new to the company it sounds like a handful. 3 versions of the 757, and 2 of the 767 self taught on your iPad, plus just 4 days of class to sort it all out. Slowing down and being more thorough would cost money and time..... so we just hit the highlights.
Systems used to be taught quite extensively...now, just CBT. But the bigger issues were the total lack of FMC familiarization...it was RADICALLY different in setup from my previous aircraft. Example: it used to only take 2-3 button pushes to get ATIS...now it’s...10?
And: the Flight Manual was just CAL and UAL pages shoved together. Formats different, and the organization...whoa boy.
I have all my old paper manuals from 20 years ago. The logic of the layout was far superior.
The manuals are refined now and have one format, but the old layout was superior for finding information.
I trained in both locations. I thought the sim quality was equal, and I had good instructors..and some just fair.
But even if you had prior Boeing time...the organization and footprint was still less than ideal.
11-01-2019, 06:45 AM
#65
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Sleeping in the black swan’s nest.
Posts: 5,725
I did 756 five years ago after furlough and mil...a long time. I had Boeing FMC experience.
Systems used to be taught quite extensively...now, just CBT. But the bigger issues were the total lack of FMC familiarization...it was RADICALLY different in setup from my previous aircraft. Example: it used to only take 2-3 button pushes to get ATIS...now it’s...10?
And: the Flight Manual was just CAL and UAL pages shoved together. Formats different, and the organization...whoa boy.
I have all my old paper manuals from 20 years ago. The logic of the layout was far superior.
The manuals are refined now and have one format, but the old layout was superior for finding information.
I trained in both locations. I thought the sim quality was equal, and I had good instructors..and some just fair.
But even if you had prior Boeing time...the organization and footprint was still less than ideal.
Systems used to be taught quite extensively...now, just CBT. But the bigger issues were the total lack of FMC familiarization...it was RADICALLY different in setup from my previous aircraft. Example: it used to only take 2-3 button pushes to get ATIS...now it’s...10?
And: the Flight Manual was just CAL and UAL pages shoved together. Formats different, and the organization...whoa boy.
I have all my old paper manuals from 20 years ago. The logic of the layout was far superior.
The manuals are refined now and have one format, but the old layout was superior for finding information.
I trained in both locations. I thought the sim quality was equal, and I had good instructors..and some just fair.
But even if you had prior Boeing time...the organization and footprint was still less than ideal.
11-01-2019, 07:53 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: 777
Posts: 2,171
You think the 757 syllabus is too short and not built for new hires?
Wait a couple of months when the last bid starts training new hires in the 787 and 777 fleets. Both those programs presume some prior Boeing and FMC familiarity--as well as knowing UAL. It's going to be a cluster. Not because of the new hires, UAL is just not prepared for new hires in those fleets.
Wait a couple of months when the last bid starts training new hires in the 787 and 777 fleets. Both those programs presume some prior Boeing and FMC familiarity--as well as knowing UAL. It's going to be a cluster. Not because of the new hires, UAL is just not prepared for new hires in those fleets.
11-01-2019, 09:49 AM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 862
"Training bubble guys"... please elaborate as I've never heard this term before...
I know you've never been a TK instructor because it seems you don't really understand how things work there.
Your average TK instructor has pretty much zero control over policy and FM changes, just like your average LCA or line CA. Do you think that management brings in instructors and evaluators to have exhaustive discussion on what they are changing?
Nope.
These fleet decisions are made by 1-2 people in a fleet of 5000 737 pilots. There is no discussion, no debate, etc. When the line pilots see the change, that's when the instructor/evaluators see the change as well.
Do you honestly think TK instructors want all of these "harmonization" changes? That means they have to teach all of these changes during CQ to some guys who have been on the aircraft for 10-30 years and listen to everyone ***** about it.
Please get some perspective. The instructors/sim check airmen/ LCAs are your fellow brothers and sisters just trying to keep their heads above water will all these ridiculous changes as well. Basically, your on your soapbox preaching to the choir here.
I know you've never been a TK instructor because it seems you don't really understand how things work there.
Your average TK instructor has pretty much zero control over policy and FM changes, just like your average LCA or line CA. Do you think that management brings in instructors and evaluators to have exhaustive discussion on what they are changing?
Nope.
These fleet decisions are made by 1-2 people in a fleet of 5000 737 pilots. There is no discussion, no debate, etc. When the line pilots see the change, that's when the instructor/evaluators see the change as well.
Do you honestly think TK instructors want all of these "harmonization" changes? That means they have to teach all of these changes during CQ to some guys who have been on the aircraft for 10-30 years and listen to everyone ***** about it.
Please get some perspective. The instructors/sim check airmen/ LCAs are your fellow brothers and sisters just trying to keep their heads above water will all these ridiculous changes as well. Basically, your on your soapbox preaching to the choir here.
11-01-2019, 10:11 AM
#69
Moderate Moderator
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Curator at Static Display
Posts: 5,681
Sadly.
This concept of “learning on the line” worked during the stagnant decade, because a new guy would likely fly with a Capt that had been on the plane for many years, and with the company for at least a decade...more likely 15-20 years.
But when we have guys with less than five years as Captains...they may no longer be high-mins by legal definition, but the level of mentorship is probably not the same.
The top brass are saying the right things: they want to build a world-class airline in all aspects, that makes us the customer’s first choice.
I contend that means make the footprint and syllabus the best, too.
This concept of “learning on the line” worked during the stagnant decade, because a new guy would likely fly with a Capt that had been on the plane for many years, and with the company for at least a decade...more likely 15-20 years.
But when we have guys with less than five years as Captains...they may no longer be high-mins by legal definition, but the level of mentorship is probably not the same.
The top brass are saying the right things: they want to build a world-class airline in all aspects, that makes us the customer’s first choice.
I contend that means make the footprint and syllabus the best, too.
Last edited by UAL T38 Phlyer; 11-01-2019 at 10:32 AM.
11-01-2019, 12:19 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Position: 757/767
Posts: 185
The problem with the 756 isn’t with the instructors, it’s with the footprint. The course is made for someone already on the airplane or another Boeing. For someone coming from Airbus or new to the company it sounds like a handful. 3 versions of the 757, and 2 of the 767 self taught on your iPad, plus just 4 days of class to sort it all out. Slowing down and being more thorough would cost money and time..... so we just hit the highlights.
