pokey9554

I agree. It’s insulting to those who have dug in the trenches.

mainlineposer

This happens at the regionals on the regular, Im a 24 year old captain often flying with brand new hires straight out of a 172. Which usually entails a little bit of flight instructing on my part but they all do well.

gollum

(Disclaimer; I am not young and it took me a long time to get to a major)

In what manual does it say “The way it’s supposed to be for a pilot to make it to a Major is...”?

The mindset of “I had to do it , so everyone should have to” is the dumbest thing I have ever heard.

Why is it ok for a young pilot to be in the left seat of a regional but somehow not ok for them to be in the right seat of a major?

Given that airline training should Be to FAA standards no matter if it’s a regional or major that should be a wash.

Which do you think is more beneficial for a young pilot’s development, flying with a regional captain who has all of maybe a couple hundred hours more flight time than the new FO or flying with a seasoned mainline pilot?

Absolutely no reason whatsoever A pilot under 25 can’t be successful given the right training other than bitterness from those who were not as fortunate.

ShyGuy

The MAXs crash Captains were 31 and 29.

gollum

Your point?

1. They they were trained poorly (nothing to do with age)

2. Why are people ok with 2 young, relatively inexperienced pilots at the controls of a RJ but not ok with with young FO flying with a seasoned mainline pilot ?

wrxpilot

Because it should be about experience AND qualifications? Not sure how much experience a 23 year old has, but I’m assuming it’s not as much as the many well qualified RJ CAs out there just waiting for a call with 5+ years experience.

FlewNavy

If this job is about experience and qualifications, would you then agree that we should have a competitive selection process for upgrades at mainline? If you want to upgrade to a higher paying seat you submit an application to a board and/or go through an interview process that determines if you have obtained enough experience and qualifications for the next level. What about the FAA minimums for an ATP and then and additional 1000hrs prior to PIC of 121 operation? Are they not high enough?

I think we can all agree that this job really isn't 100% about experience and qualifications. As long as the airline still has the luxury of hiring good personalities that meet the requirements and are trainable and take the job seriously - I'm fine with their approach. It is highly unlikely that we will be forced to hire pilots at the bare ATP minimums and then upgrade them the moment they hit 1000hrs in the right seat. That is exactly what is happening at our regional partners. There is usually only 1 or 2 outliers in each class with respect to age/experience and that means a couple dozen or so per year out of hundreds of extraordinarily well qualified new hires. For whatever reason they were hired...I'm ok with the overall trend of who is making it to Basic Indoc.

Turbosina

I suppose what's frustrating to many is how opaque the hiring process can be. I've flown with so many great pilots who would be perfect fits at any airline: many thousands of hours of total time, lots of life experience, great to be around on a 4-day, unblemished records, years of 121 experience...and they can't get a call.

Then you have the stories about guys getting hired at the majors at age 23 (this just happened at DAL.) And you wonder -- just how is this possible? How can a 23-year-old be remotely ready for the right seat of a Mad Dog? And why would that person get called ahead of, say, the 30 or 40 Y/O RJ captain with 10K TT and every other box checked?

On the other hand, I've flown with a 26 y/o who just got hired at DAL. I can see exactly why. He's sharp, detailed, a good stick, very personable, and will undoubtedly do very well. And at the same time I remember when SWA hired a guy who was a legend in base for being the most cantankerous, unfriendly guy any of us knew, in addition to scaring more than a few of us in the air. Quite how this individual got past their hiring filters was a puzzlement to all of us...

horrido27

Guess it's in the same 'manual' that say's a man should hold the door open for a lady, that I should give out Halloween candy next week, that we should try and help out those who have it worse than us.

Of course there's no manual that says how you become a Major Airline Pilot.
But there are some long established guidelines.
How about we say a High School diploma is good enough. Wait-
reverse that.
How about a GED is good enough.

How about we get the MCPL (Multi Crew Pilot License) and hire 250hr pilots with a wet comm. multi. and make them IRO's?
Nothing wrong with that, huh..

For the record, I'm also 'old' and came up the hard way (ex enlisted!). But that doesn't mean everyone behind me has to do it the same way.. but hours and experience matters. If you disagree, ok.


Well, lets see. If ya think ALL airlines are 'standard' that there is funny.
When I flew a E145 at Trans States, we had certain weights for checked bags.. and there would be a Chautauqua E145 sitting next to us with the exact OPPOSITE weight for the same bags! LOL
Sure, the FAA can set "Minimum" standards for the industry, but each airline can raise those minimums to meet their needs/goals.

And I NEVER said the guy/gal in the left seat of an RJ shouldn't be in the right seat of a mainliner.. just the opposite! The RJ Captain SHOULD transition over to the right seat of a mainline aircraft.. and then move over into the right seat at the 12yr mark! (LOL.. just kidding.. 3-5 yr is a good time to move)

Wait, what?!
So you think the new hire FO should NOT spend more time with the Regional Captain and build hours and experience but jump ahead of him and get hired into the Mainline right seat INSTEAD of the Regional Captain getting hired into the Mainline right seat and the newhire FO finally moving into the Left seat?!
hmm.. interesting.

Of course there isn't.
But again, why WOULD you hire the 25yr old regional FO vs the 28yr old Regional Captain (or maybe even 25yr Captain)?
There must be data out there now (hearing some of the horror stories on line) that certain subset new hire groups are having harder times with training then others.

I have heard that the single seat fighter guys/gals have a bit of a hard time in training.. due to some of the CRM/crew ways of doing things. But then again, single seat fighters have to be some of the hardest, stressful type of training and flying going.. so spending a few extra sims/hours on someone in their 30's or 40's is not that big of a deal to me. THEY have earned that right.

But (if it's true) that it took someone 70+hrs of IOE to get on line.. and they weren't an RJ Captain but someone who was hired through a program that goes against known guidelines.. then I (and everyone else) should question the program.
Yes, once hired we should/need to help them get through. But we should also re-evaluate the hiring process so maybe it doesn't happen again, or become the norm.

I don't begrudge anyone who I fly with.. on the basis of how they got into the cockpit (except for Scabs..)
I want a fun trip.. SAFE and no FSAP/IRO reports (ok, maybe a 'Bravo'.. hahaha) and then enjoy a good meal with a Bier and talk contract stuff!

We all have different ways of finally making into the cockpit of a mainline aircraft. I'm just saying that at this time in the industry, when there are still thousands of qualified RJ Captains and pilots with lots of Turbine PIC time, not sure why we hire people without that.

Just my opinion and .02 cents!

Fly Safe, Fly Professionally and Fly the Contract!
Always
Motch

N6279P

Talk contract stuff over dinner? Yikes. Don’t you have other interests?