Broncofan

How is this about me? I took my assigned seniority at indoc years ago, i didn't complain to my fellow classmates, I am not going to benefit one bit from the rules changing. I'm looking out for future young guys who might benefit from it. I love how being fair is all about me and should exclude me from union work. Hmm maybe you have convinced me to get into union work.

horrido27

Not looking to start a fight here... but there is something that needs to be corrected.
It's based on where you are in YOUR unionized NewHire class.
There has to be some sort of determining who is "Senior" and who is junior. Be what may, our airline and union has decided that within the class, Senior is based on age.

Everyone entering into employment with United knows that.
Therefore, if someone somewhere decides to "sue" one day, it might be a tough sale. On top of that, that individual will become a pariah within the this pilot group.
Could it happen.. sure. But I think it's gonna be a tough sale.

Guess pilots are upset at your post because we have done it a certain way for so long and now someone (and can I assume you're semi young?) comes in and basically calls what we consider fair.. unfair.

I don't see it changing until maybe you and some of the younger generation get themselves into management and even then, you will always have pilots on the other side fighting this idea.

Not sure how all the other airlines do it (DAL, AAL, FedEx, UPS, SWA, JB, etc..) but then again.. it doesn't matter because as someone posted earlier, it's hard to claim Age Discrimination when pilots of all ages are hired. Heard of someone at 6o hired a few years back!
Not sure if the law would apply to how a company/union determines Seniority within a class.

Always
Motch

Broncofan

Point taken.. I Still think there are better ways to determine class seniority. SS# (or even pulling numbers out of a hat) would be more fair to all in the class. So I'll agree to disagree with the mentality that just because things have been done they way they have, it's a good way to continue. Like I said I've been here for 5 years now, I have no real skin in that game anymore. Just calling it as it is. If someone in a corporate world is offered a better position (seniority for us) based solely on age, I can't think of a better term than age discrimination.

webecheck

2 people start class. One is 61 and retires in 4 years, the other is 24 and retires in 41 years. You honestly have a problem yielding the seniority to the older new hire?

Broncofan

2 people start class one is 29 the other 30. Your telling me he gets to have a leg up on me for 35 years and I get the last one to party away! Sounds like a good deal.
To answer your question, if we flip a coin and he wins, I have no problem. If I was told that's policy so deal with it. I would deal with it but I wouldn't think it's fair. Aren't we always told that in this career seniority is everything? Why just give it away?

webecheck

We aren’t giving it away, we’re rewarding those who have been paving the way longer than yourself because everyone knows their mainline career will be shorter than everyone else’s in the class...and it’s only relative to about 20-40 numbers within one class out of 13k pilots.

Your opinion on this is astoundingly selfish and I honestly can’t believe you take issue with it. Without looking at your profile my guess is you came from a non union regional and got hired young.

Itsajob

Getting hired young at a legacy and complaining about the old guys in your class being a couple of numbers senior is about as asinine as someone winning the lottery and complaining about the taxes.

Broncofan

A 20 year mil guy has been paving the airline aviation road longer than I had? Your absolutely correct though I came from the non union airline but I'm super happy and grateful to be at a unionized airline that has done many beneficial things. Am I not allowed to disagree with something? To be fair though I wouldn't have cared at all if there wasn't a 2 year seat lock for new hires. I would have told every guy senior to me I hope you have a good career and please get your heart checked at least once a year.

Broncofan

I guess it would be worth complaining if the older guy who also won didn't have to pay taxes because he was... older

rvfanatic

There’s the rub. If we are all going to have the same opportunities give or take a few seniority numbers, cool. But with the two year seat lock, one pilot can be in EWR on reserve for potentially the whole seat lock (maybe 1.5yrs if lucky) in a 756 while someone a year or two older in class has a line immediately on the coast in a 737/320 or bids to ORD/DEN/IAH and sits RSV.

Maybe I’m off base but I’m guessing new hires getting 756 at such a high rate is a new thing. Thus, this is a new phenomenon that requires a fresh look. Nobody is arguing the 756 is not a great jet, with great trips, at a great airline.

It’s just unfortunate to see such an objection to diversity of thought and new ideas. We don’t have to agree with each other on viewpoints but the mob mentality and character attacks (millennial, selfish, ungrateful) is concerning and does very little to move the ball forward.