whaler

Cost of our freedom *********.

Gone Flying

I can see why you are thinking I am being anti MIL as it is harder to convey tones on an internet page but i can promise that is not my intent. if we were having this conversation F2F it would be easier. my comment was more aimed at the fact that USERRA allows people who want to abuse the system the chance to do so without any way for the company to identify abuse. it also was in response to someone saying that mil leave creates 0 drag for the company, which was why i gave those examples

while every company in the US has to deal with USERRA i would think airlines see it more than most. simple reasoning; about 35-50% of new hire pilots at most airlines are military trained pilots. i have 0 knowledge of what % of those are guard/ reserve but i would guess half of those are either guard from the start or finishing out their 20 in the guard/reserves. so 18-25 %, give or take, of your newhire workforce is in this catagory. i doubt many other companys can say the same.

if you see no issues with a person taking a job when the have no plans to actually do the civilian job they are applying for all while forcing that company to put 10s of thousands of dollars into an account for that individual then i am not going to change your mind.

i understand that the government is shifting towards guard/reserve to save money and honestly this makes alot of sense financially. I also understand that most guard/reserve folks are caught between 2 very demanding jobs and often times the only real loser is their families. but at the end of the day the way it is used by some for things like
-getting specific days off their senority could not hold.
- getting out of undesirable trips.
- getting a sen# while still planning to spend years on AGR status to get a 20 year retirement.
you can see why people whom it is not directly benefiting would call it into question.

we all know USERRA wont change because ,like you said, it places alot of the financial burden on companies and not the government.

baseball

People's personal opinions, both within the guard/reserve, and OUTSIDE the guard/reserve are just that. Their personal views. How you FEEL about someone's decison-making process is up to you. How you feel is a personal thing.

I recall the IAH Ast CP saying...."you need to choose between Continental and your Navy unit." That ACP was relieved the day after the suit hit. He had his opinion and it cost him for running his mouth and being recorded doing it.

The three important things are: YES, the gaurd/reserve provides a viatal national defense function, and YES it costs money. and YES it's a drain on personal life and professional life. It's a compromise. UAL, like everyone else has to deal with that compromise.

I will always take extremely strong exception to anyone speaking negatively about someone taking mil leave for what they perceive as an injustice to others, regardless of what day they were hired.

The company, just as the training department staff knows better than to mention something so reckless. You may have your personal opinions about someone taking short notice MLLV, or even MLLV while a new hire. I would encourage you to keep those views to yourself. You can't know, nor pretend to know all of the factors involved. That new hire may or may not be looking forward to all of the aspects of that activation, but regardless, it's none of your business.

WarEagle28

Amen...this nails it

Gone Flying

Im not in congress so i have no power to change anything...but this is a public forum and again I was just responding to someone who said MIL leave has 0 adverse affect on their civilian employer. regardless of your beliefs i would hope you recognize that a civilian employer is affected, although is is a cost of doing business

I agree that should cost him his job as a CP. that is not what I was saying and I would not support that stance for a second.

no argument,

fair enough. while I will agree with you 95% of the time, I will always take exception to people who try to game the system for their personal advantage. i have known many people who are juggling their civ and mil job and it is a HUGE drain on their personal life. I also know a few that are taking advantage of their CIV employer (both in aviation and other fields). I guess we will disagree on that one

I spent my entire childhood, from the day I was born til i was out of the house, with a parent who was between these 2 jobs. so yeah i can imagine some of the factors. I am not saying people need to leave the reserve or anything of the sort. if you knew me personally you would know that I am extremely supportive of the military and that includes the guard and reserves. I was just pointing out the ways USERRA affects the employer that some may not realize. again the person I quoted said MIL leave has 0 adverse affect on their employer. while it is your right (and I fully support you for doing so, you are doing our country a great service) to take MIL leave, it does affect your employer.

if I have come a cross as anti MIL that was not my intent. please take that for what it is worth. my opinions on the matter are from personal experience not anecdotal evidence. I assume you are a active member of our military and I thank you for your service.

Waggy122

Someone let me know if I'm wrong here but doesn't it behoove the airlines to hire retired military and enable their Guard/Reserve pilots to get to their 20 years since they are likely to use Tricare and not the company healthcare plan in the long run.

This website shows that a family plan at most large firms costs the employer on average $15,000 a year for their share of the contribution. Do the math on that for 23-30 years for a mil hire and that's $300-450k (in today's money) that doesn't become a "drag" on the company.

https://www.peoplekeep.com/blog/how-...insurance-cost

Floyd

I'm civilian and completely agree. "Drag on our network"? Shameful.

APC225

LCAL paid $50/mo if someone used Tricare until "they" (VA? Congress? DoD?) prohibited monetarily incentivizing use of Tricare over other health insurance.

Healthcare may go the way of the do-it-yourself pension, available starting in January.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/your-em...-k-11561109401

"A landmark change will soon give more American workers control over their health-care coverage, but be warned: There are pitfalls. Beginning Jan. 1, 2020, companies can provide employees with tax-free dollars to purchase an individual policy rather than offer them a traditional group-health plan...the so-called Health Reimbursement Arrangements..."

FlewNavy

Never heard of a civ background pilot complain about mil leave. Most of the people that really take issue with mil leave ABUSE are separated or retired military. The issue is with the intent of USERRA vs the letter of the law. It was intended for NON-CAREER military to have protection and it can be argued that it is unethical for career military to take an official/unofficial sabbatical from their military career to start a civ career willfully knowing that they will drop mil leave for up to 5 years to secure a govt pension. There aren't many that have chosen this particularly route but enough have done so that it has made it more difficult for veterans between 14-18 years of service to get interviews based on anecdotal evidence only. Those that have decided to use the law to return to a full time military career have secured a very good deal (have your cake and eat it too) when formerly most have had to make a choice to get a seniority number or get an active duty pension. I haven't personally seen the "mil leave to drop undesirable trips" but I know several that have dropped 3-5 years mil leave the moment they have consolidated.

US Code for background info only so y'all can decide for yourself:

§4301. Purposes; sense of Congress
(a) The purposes of this chapter are-
(1) to encourage noncareer service in the uniformed services by eliminating or minimizing the disadvantages to civilian careers and employment which can result from such service;
(2) to minimize the disruption to the lives of persons performing service in the uniformed services as well as to their employers, their fellow employees, and their communities, by providing for the prompt reemployment of such persons upon their completion of such service; and
(3) to prohibit discrimination against persons because of their service in the uniformed services.

Lets get back to talking about MOABs and new hires unhappy with the 756.

Winston

I can’t figure out why any pilot would have a problem. Every guy ahead of me on mil leave effectively moves me up a number when I bid every month.

That’s a good thing.