Looks like the jumpseat order got changed.
10-13-2019, 10:30 AM
#422
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 175
The big problem I have is the AVIATE program itself. Who’s to say all of a sudden UA makes a new program, with say Commutair exclusively that’s different than AVIATE. Then decides unilaterally they get priority over the not so special anymore exclusive airlines? I don’t want to set that precedent.
The big difference between Wholly Owned and a random program deciding Jumpseat privilege is full ownership is set in stone. A random program can change with the blink of an eye.
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The big difference between Wholly Owned and a random program deciding Jumpseat privilege is full ownership is set in stone. A random program can change with the blink of an eye.
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10-13-2019, 10:41 AM
#423
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
You can "consider" them all you want. They aren't. There is zero precedent for what you are doing, so stop being dishonest about the situation. If you guys want to start some new trend, or just want to do it your own way, then by all means. But say what you're doing and stop hiding behind false pretense. This is not "just like Delta and American". This is a power grab by UALPA for their own benefit at the expense of others. Which is really unfortunate, because the United pilots I've spoken to and hand in the jumpseat never seemed like people who could care less about the guys still in the regionals.
Back on topic, even if they were wholly owned, as I said (and you conveniently ignored), your new priority system is nothing like Delta's priority system. Stop saying it is.
Back on topic, even if they were wholly owned, as I said (and you conveniently ignored), your new priority system is nothing like Delta's priority system. Stop saying it is.
So for all practical purposes, our exclusive UAX Carriers have the same standing as a Delta Wholly Owned. Expand your brain!!! You actually get paid to see the big picture.
10-13-2019, 10:59 AM
#424
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: .
Posts: 348
Once again this industry is very small. I personally know pilots at every single major airline to include UPS and Fedex. Dropping your name with the United hiring folks is a simple email. If I’m denied a JS it won’t be that difficult to spread your name across the entire industry. You really need to decide if your career progression is worth your childish behavior....
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10-13-2019, 11:04 AM
#425
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 175
Looks like the jumpseat order got changed.
Once again this industry is very small. I personally know pilots at every single major airline to include UPS and Fedex. Dropping your name with the United hiring folks is a simple email. If I’m denied a JS it won’t be that difficult to spread your name across the entire industry. You really need to decide if your career progression is worth your childish behavior....
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Yeah you go filter those people out that actually follow direct instructions from their Union!! I bet the ones who don’t will fight with you! /s/
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10-13-2019, 11:05 AM
#426
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2016
Posts: 175
Looks like the jumpseat order got changed.
Accidentally reposted oops
10-13-2019, 11:08 AM
#427
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 705
FEEL FREE TO DISTRIBUTE
An Open Letter To the Professional Pilots of Skywest Airlines
Dear Brother and Sister Skywest pilots,
I would like to make clear that I am representing no opinions other than my own. I am not acting in anyway on behalf of any group, union, or pilot other than myself.
My name is xxx xxxxx. I was hired in 1985 at United and was fired that same year for going on strike to fight against a B-scale, two-tier pay scheme. Over five-hundred of my fellow new hires and I were on the street for nearly a year, caught in the struggle to help maintain and improve our—what would eventually be your—careers. We ultimately got our jobs back through the courts but were then punished when our anti-labor CEO, Richard Ferris, demanded that our seniority be placed behind the 539 pilots United hired during the strike. Thankfully this injustice was eventually corrected. We learned the importance of patience, perseverance, and most importantly, brotherhood. We learned that ours is a small community and that by sticking together and taking care of each other we all succeed.
Jumpseat wars are not good for anyone. Sadly, it would appear from what I have been reading that some in your pilot group have advocated that the United pilots have somehow treated you unfairly and that you should take retaliatory action by denying those who request jumpseats. I have read that some of you believe that you will be “violated” for allowing a United pilot in your jumpseat for violating your FOM.
I would like to share some personal history with you regarding my experiences in attempting to build a fair and equitable jumpseat program for our two pilot groups.
In the mid 2000s I was the Jumpseat Chairman for the United MEC. I was working with the individual the Skywest Pilot appointed to handle your group’s jumpseat matters. On a number of occasions, I brought the concerns of the United pilots to him. I clearly articulated the inequities built into the system, and I asked him, as both a professional, a gentleman, and a brother aviator, to consider our concerns and help us correct them in a fair and equitable fashion. I presented several compromise solutions. I was consistently met with a metaphorical palm in the face and told “No.” There was not a shred of consideration given to our concerns. When I would attempt to challenge these inequities in debate, I was on the receiving end of anger and yelling.
I went back to the UALMEC and presented the facts. Our MEC, having been through many challenges, the strike of 1985, union busting, the ousting of a CEO, attempts at employee ownership, etc., had learned to exercise patience and wisdom. While there were some who wanted to challenge the situation, I advocated for and most agreed that patience and the building of relationships was important. This was at a time when Skywest was much smaller. We continued to extend our hands in brotherhood and friendship and welcomed you into our cockpits. That was nearly fifteen years ago.
In 2010 I was elected MEC Vice Chairman of the UALMEC, our union’s number two position. Within months we were inundated with news of a merger between United and Continental. Due to my experience with the Jumpseat Committee, I was assigned to deal with these matters. As we were working with our new soon-to-be Continental pilot brothers and sisters. we had many discussions about harmonizing our jumpseat policies and building an express umbrella with regard to jumpseats.
Once again we reached out to the same individual I had previously worked with at Skywest who represented your jumpseat policies. Once again an attempt was made to bring equity and harmony to our jumpseat relationship with the Skywest pilots. Once again we were met with a palm in the face. Our concerns and requests for discussions were answered with cancelled meetings, exclusion from meetings that the Skywest representative set up with the other UAX regional carriers’ pilot groups, and yelling and threats of jumpseat wars.
Again we presented several reasonable and fair options and compromises in which there were no windfalls for either side, options which would help to build and maintain harmony and brotherhood. Again we were met with a palm in the face, and a strong “No.” In fact, the representative and another from another carrier bragged that they had created a group that they referred to as “The Cartel.” The purpose of this “cartel” was to force the United pilots into accepting inequitable jumpseat priorities.
Once again I brought the issues to the UALMEC. Once again the UALMEC exercised restraint and wisdom and advocated for continued relationship building, hoping that the Skywest pilots would come to a point where they realized that a fair and equitable jumpseat relationship would benefit everyone. That was nearly ten years ago.
Today I am not involved in the UALMEC on any level, and I will be retiring soon. My 777 Captain seat will be filled by some of today’s new hires. A pilot who very well may someday come from one of the UAX carriers, maybe even you will be taking my seat, sitting in a hotel in Delhi, India, someday (where I’m typing this) and thinking back on this pivotal moment. What did I do or say in that moment when pilot was pitted against pilot through no doing of either pilot? Did I act like a brother aviator? Or did I let emotion and anger (based on misrepresentation and untruths) get the better of me?
Let me tell you what I am going to do. If you come to my aircraft and request a jumpseat on my 777, I will welcome you and shake your hand. I will ask you to sit on the flight deck so we can discuss the matter and build the things we share in common. You are going to be in the profession for a very long time, and I want you to be successful and share in the great career I have had. I will share with you what happened and why I think we are not being unreasonable based on history and fairness.
I will advocate, as I would to any United pilot or other, that if you are not happy with how you are being represented, find someone who will represent you in a fashion that you can be proud of. Your representatives work for you, not the other way around. What motivates them may or may not be in your best interest. Call them. You are within your rights to insist that they represent you in a fashion that promotes your long term interests.
Finally, I will explain that if you agree with me, that building a fair and equitable jumpseat protocol between our two carriers will benefit everyone in the long run, and if you think it’s wrong to have a jumpseat war and exclude United pilots from your jumpseats, but you’re afraid that you will be violated by the FAA—then I suggest you do as I would do and reach out to your POI and ask the question.
“If I allow a United pilot into my cockpit, who is properly credentialed and CASS/COMPANY security checked, but there is a question about priorities in terms of carrier versus carrier, will I be violated by the FAA?”
I know the answer. But you should ask for yourself.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I look forward to welcoming you into my jumpseat and someday (before they give me the boot) maybe even flying with you. I’ll take the chicken, please. You guys get crew meals, right?
Fraternally,
Captain xxx xxxx
EWR 777
An Open Letter To the Professional Pilots of Skywest Airlines
Dear Brother and Sister Skywest pilots,
I would like to make clear that I am representing no opinions other than my own. I am not acting in anyway on behalf of any group, union, or pilot other than myself.
My name is xxx xxxxx. I was hired in 1985 at United and was fired that same year for going on strike to fight against a B-scale, two-tier pay scheme. Over five-hundred of my fellow new hires and I were on the street for nearly a year, caught in the struggle to help maintain and improve our—what would eventually be your—careers. We ultimately got our jobs back through the courts but were then punished when our anti-labor CEO, Richard Ferris, demanded that our seniority be placed behind the 539 pilots United hired during the strike. Thankfully this injustice was eventually corrected. We learned the importance of patience, perseverance, and most importantly, brotherhood. We learned that ours is a small community and that by sticking together and taking care of each other we all succeed.
Jumpseat wars are not good for anyone. Sadly, it would appear from what I have been reading that some in your pilot group have advocated that the United pilots have somehow treated you unfairly and that you should take retaliatory action by denying those who request jumpseats. I have read that some of you believe that you will be “violated” for allowing a United pilot in your jumpseat for violating your FOM.
I would like to share some personal history with you regarding my experiences in attempting to build a fair and equitable jumpseat program for our two pilot groups.
In the mid 2000s I was the Jumpseat Chairman for the United MEC. I was working with the individual the Skywest Pilot appointed to handle your group’s jumpseat matters. On a number of occasions, I brought the concerns of the United pilots to him. I clearly articulated the inequities built into the system, and I asked him, as both a professional, a gentleman, and a brother aviator, to consider our concerns and help us correct them in a fair and equitable fashion. I presented several compromise solutions. I was consistently met with a metaphorical palm in the face and told “No.” There was not a shred of consideration given to our concerns. When I would attempt to challenge these inequities in debate, I was on the receiving end of anger and yelling.
I went back to the UALMEC and presented the facts. Our MEC, having been through many challenges, the strike of 1985, union busting, the ousting of a CEO, attempts at employee ownership, etc., had learned to exercise patience and wisdom. While there were some who wanted to challenge the situation, I advocated for and most agreed that patience and the building of relationships was important. This was at a time when Skywest was much smaller. We continued to extend our hands in brotherhood and friendship and welcomed you into our cockpits. That was nearly fifteen years ago.
In 2010 I was elected MEC Vice Chairman of the UALMEC, our union’s number two position. Within months we were inundated with news of a merger between United and Continental. Due to my experience with the Jumpseat Committee, I was assigned to deal with these matters. As we were working with our new soon-to-be Continental pilot brothers and sisters. we had many discussions about harmonizing our jumpseat policies and building an express umbrella with regard to jumpseats.
Once again we reached out to the same individual I had previously worked with at Skywest who represented your jumpseat policies. Once again an attempt was made to bring equity and harmony to our jumpseat relationship with the Skywest pilots. Once again we were met with a palm in the face. Our concerns and requests for discussions were answered with cancelled meetings, exclusion from meetings that the Skywest representative set up with the other UAX regional carriers’ pilot groups, and yelling and threats of jumpseat wars.
Again we presented several reasonable and fair options and compromises in which there were no windfalls for either side, options which would help to build and maintain harmony and brotherhood. Again we were met with a palm in the face, and a strong “No.” In fact, the representative and another from another carrier bragged that they had created a group that they referred to as “The Cartel.” The purpose of this “cartel” was to force the United pilots into accepting inequitable jumpseat priorities.
Once again I brought the issues to the UALMEC. Once again the UALMEC exercised restraint and wisdom and advocated for continued relationship building, hoping that the Skywest pilots would come to a point where they realized that a fair and equitable jumpseat relationship would benefit everyone. That was nearly ten years ago.
Today I am not involved in the UALMEC on any level, and I will be retiring soon. My 777 Captain seat will be filled by some of today’s new hires. A pilot who very well may someday come from one of the UAX carriers, maybe even you will be taking my seat, sitting in a hotel in Delhi, India, someday (where I’m typing this) and thinking back on this pivotal moment. What did I do or say in that moment when pilot was pitted against pilot through no doing of either pilot? Did I act like a brother aviator? Or did I let emotion and anger (based on misrepresentation and untruths) get the better of me?
Let me tell you what I am going to do. If you come to my aircraft and request a jumpseat on my 777, I will welcome you and shake your hand. I will ask you to sit on the flight deck so we can discuss the matter and build the things we share in common. You are going to be in the profession for a very long time, and I want you to be successful and share in the great career I have had. I will share with you what happened and why I think we are not being unreasonable based on history and fairness.
I will advocate, as I would to any United pilot or other, that if you are not happy with how you are being represented, find someone who will represent you in a fashion that you can be proud of. Your representatives work for you, not the other way around. What motivates them may or may not be in your best interest. Call them. You are within your rights to insist that they represent you in a fashion that promotes your long term interests.
Finally, I will explain that if you agree with me, that building a fair and equitable jumpseat protocol between our two carriers will benefit everyone in the long run, and if you think it’s wrong to have a jumpseat war and exclude United pilots from your jumpseats, but you’re afraid that you will be violated by the FAA—then I suggest you do as I would do and reach out to your POI and ask the question.
“If I allow a United pilot into my cockpit, who is properly credentialed and CASS/COMPANY security checked, but there is a question about priorities in terms of carrier versus carrier, will I be violated by the FAA?”
I know the answer. But you should ask for yourself.
Thank you for taking the time to read this. I look forward to welcoming you into my jumpseat and someday (before they give me the boot) maybe even flying with you. I’ll take the chicken, please. You guys get crew meals, right?
Fraternally,
Captain xxx xxxx
EWR 777
10-13-2019, 11:10 AM
#428
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: SFO Guppy CA
Posts: 1,112
Once again this industry is very small. I personally know pilots at every single major airline to include UPS and Fedex. Dropping your name with the United hiring folks is a simple email. If I’m denied a JS it won’t be that difficult to spread your name across the entire industry. You really need to decide if your career progression is worth your childish behavior....
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10-13-2019, 11:19 AM
#429
Banned
Joined APC: Oct 2019
Posts: 45
Once again this industry is very small. I personally know pilots at every single major airline to include UPS and Fedex. Dropping your name with the United hiring folks is a simple email. If I’m denied a JS it won’t be that difficult to spread your name across the entire industry. You really need to decide if your career progression is worth your childish behavior....
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certificate action?
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