JoePatroni

The “updates” put out by the MEC don’t inspire a lot of confidence, I seriously hope I’m wrong.

757Driver

I have a question. The MEC and many of you on here are whispering "have patience". OK, I'm thinking 11 months is being fairly patient and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. What exactly are we waiting and being "patient" for? The company to cave on scope, not happening. ALPA to say well....., we've change our minds on the matter and will allow you to have XYZ number of new RJ's, Nope, not according to Todd.

Here's my take. We'll wait until the cows come home AND a downturn in the economy and see how our patience has paid off for at that point. News flash folks, the economy is humming along and the corporation is making a lot of money. What are we waiting for???

If we are truly at am impasse then convey the specifics of what that impasse is. For those of you who tell me to read an update or call my Rep, done both and don't know anything except for the fact we are at a stalement over scope. No numbers, airframes, details or anything from the Union and I'd like to know why?

If we truly have been at an impasse for this long the Pilot group needs to be made aware of the whys and whens. Riled up Pilots and being in arbitration might be enough to get Kirby to budge. Sitting on our hands, being patient and praying for him to change isn't.

Ni hao

They are more in a IBB then true section 6. We can declare an impasse then the NMB get's involved. You can push it out 2 years maybe 3. That said something has to give in 2020. You either want a deal or don't. If not then lets get it on. The MEC has a tall order to get this pilot group motivated. Let's see what they can do.

SquawkIdent

I'd say it's been even longer. We exchanged openers on 3/1/18, so we've been negotiating for almost 20 months.

In that time, we've had only a handful of updates and now things seem to have gone silent. I've engaged my reps and the P2P committee. Nobody's talking. Or if they are, it's just a few generic boilerplate talking points.

The stated goal was to have an agreement by The end of December 2018. Of course, that ship sailed long ago.

Now we are fast approaching one year beyond the amendable date of January 31, 2019 -- and there's next to no real information flowing to the pilot group.

I'm willing to wait for the right agreement. But ALPA has to meet me halfway by telling me what's going on and what to expect as things drag on.

JoePatroni

No info, no polling, and rumblings of more RJ's. Awesome.

Itsajob

Every contract cycle we act like it’s different this time, but it usually takes 2 years to go through the motions before we have anything to vote on. Let those who we put in place do their job. If we like what they come up with we vote it in, if not we tell them to pound sand. It’s far too early to definitively say how anything is going unless you are actually in the room. Enjoy your pay and time with the family. Fixate on what we have now, hope for better in the future. Getting spun up on what could be soils the ride. At the end of the day you only get one vote and accept the results. The sky isn’t falling. Wait and see, then vote your conscience.

JoePatroni

How do the negotiators know what we want without polling? Honest question.

Itsajob

I filled out polls leading into these contract negotiations telling them what was important to me. There were several of them. I have also emailed my reps and listed what I think the big ticket items are. They know where I stand. Other than that I don’t know what to say. We have representatives who try their best to negotiate what we want. If they come up short we vote no and send them back. We may elect representatives, but it is still our responsibility to direct them. Being in a union is a two way street. We can’t expect them to simply solve our problems, we need to be vocal and involved. Kind of like a logbook. Maintenance can’t fix what we don’t report. Not trying to preach by any means, just describing my approach to answer your question.

Itsajob

They have no reason to pay more if we do t give up scope. We have no reason to give up scope. Times are pretty good right now and until we get to the end game we really don’t have any legal means to put pressure on the company (self help) to change their minds. We’ve done this before and know how the game is played. Two years of BS, and then things start to move. We’re not there yet. This usually takes time. If we want to cave on scope, we could have a TA soon, if not we wait, realistically for a long while. I’ll wait for the right contract before giving up more scope relief.

SquawkIdent

I completely agree with you there.

The issue I'm having right now is that in order to direct our reps, we need to have some idea of what's on the table. We can then engage with our reps constructively as to whether we agree or disagree with the direction. They can then take that back to the MEC and help direct the negotiators.

I've engaged with my reps and told them where I stand on Scope. Unfortunately, the response is usually "we're going to strengthen Scope" without any concrete information.

At the outset of negotiations I believe everyone agreed that success on Scope meant holding the line on RJ's and allowing Scope Choke to work as it was sold to us in C2012.

Now "success on Scope" is being redefined. Most recently by the MC's message in September, but also by the talking points put forth by the P2P volunteers and reps, i.e., the existential threat of the CRJ-550 and the company's ability to park all of our widebodies. None of this was on the table at the outset of negotiations but now it's front and center. Holding the line on scope choke and 100-seaters is nowhere to be heard.

The cynical part of me is certain that the NC is going to give on the RJ issue. Since it will cause an uproar, there's a tight lid being kept on it so that the pilot group won't have a chance to lay into their reps before the TA is voted on by the MEC.

Once the MEC votes on it and it gets to the pilots for memrat, I'm sad to say that it's sure to pass.