horrido27

Actually, I "try" to know the contract but sorry that I and most of us don't live up to your knowledge level with regards to our 500+ page document.

I understand the soft start concept and was bringing up the issue that since most pilots (myself included) tend to get on our company IPads on the van (at overseas locations) or on the bus (here in domicile), it brings up the problem that since we are "technically" not at the airport yet and still up to 30 mins from actual start of our duty day, logging on to CCS opens up a can of worms with regard to being soft started.

Your Profile states you are a A320 Capt. So let me ask you this-
If you are on an international trip.. and cannot check your cell phone for a message from crew scheduling... what do you do?
Do you head downstairs at scheduled van time and then log into CCS only to find out that you are now soft reset?


I guess in a perfect world, no one would even boot up their IPad until AFTER they arrived at the flight planning area, AFTER official start of their duty.
But in the real world, what is the answer about our "status" with regards to FAR117 and when we are on the van? If it's not duty, and it's not rest.. what is it?!
Seems the Soft Reset was a loophole that FAA gave the company to basically extend our duty day.


I remember at a C2012 roadshow the question was asked about Field Standby.. answer- "It's in the contract but won't be used"
I asked about the disparity in 76-3 pay.. answer- "Planes are leaving so no reason to waste negotiating capital on them"

There is a question I have with regards to being contacted for a soft rest. I understand 2 way contact is required. Does logging on to our IPAD BEFOFE official start of the duty day constitute 2 way contact?
You state -
the Pilot Mobile shows the later pickup time without having to acknowledge the trip. You just go to airport at new time and acknowledge the trip one minute after original show time.

I don't recall seeing that. If I open up Pilot Mobile, and there is a Pairing Modification.. isn't that the same as going on CCS and seeing a pairing modification? The company knows you just logged in.. how can you then say you didn't know?


Mind you, I don't think we had Ipad's or at least no Pilot Mobile before C12.. but can't remember for sure.
How does our IPad and Pilot Mobile/FFD play into our duty day and contact time? That's all I was trying to bring up~

Motch
Fly Safe, Fly Professional and Fly the Contract

LeeFXDWG

Motch

Won’t address everything, just the iPad and activities before report time.

FAA doesn’t care. You do that on your time. Not required by the company. No different than you doing CQDL on van ride to LHR.

The counter would be a RSV checking their schedule on last day off. That’s why a CDW is entered into the MS. It’s company required duty.

How/when you want to certify FFD or pull up the OFP is up to you. The iPad is a tool that you can use as you see fit. Your FDP, however, will start at report time.

If I wake up a few early, I’ll often look at the first leg while having a coffee. That’s my choice. Not mandated.

If you want to wait and turn on the iPad at report time. Also good.

Lee

Thor

Here's one technique that they've been using in SFO for a very long time:

https://youtu.be/RYX1UYLbF7c?t=1995

baseball

The language on "soft start" appears very weak. I see it in an LOA, under "double augmented crews."

Is this some sort of work-around? I don't see it anywhere in the cba, and if used, it only applies for double-augmented ops.

is scheduling applying a more liberal interpretation?

Had it a few times before I got smart on it. As a rule, I don't answer phone.

fanaticalflyer

Motch,

Let's go back to your original post. ALPA and everyone has harped on this for years to never ever just pick up a call from Crew Scheduling, ever!! So no excuse for that pilot. I'll just assume he was a "NEW" guy. Now you said you and another guy confirmed on CCS, your change to your pairing - the soft start. So purposely clicked on it. So in both instances you did two-way communication with Crew Sked.

When you open up Pilot Mobile, the soft start is right there in your pairing. No schedule modification is required. So if CS left you a VM and/or you happened to look go into EZCCS or crew companion directly, of course, the first thing you will see is pairing mod before you can go any further. Stick with your pilot mobile app.

I agree, this UPA has a ton of crap to know. I'm no expert and have to refer to the DYK, or ALPA PDR, or my iPhone Notes that have the same scenarios that come up all the time, which instead of memorizing, i refer to. But the one thing i do know, is to never answer a phone call from CS or click on a pairing mod, until i know what's up - Unless a premium trip is open on my day off!

LeeFXDWG

Soft Start/Soft Reset is FAR117 not UPA.

Early on, our IT limitations prevented CM from using this tool for any segment other than the originating segment.

About 6+ months ago the company worked the IT side of the equation.....downhill since then.

Again, no contact prior to report time +1 minute is my mantra (unless after talking to other pilot(s) it’s deemed in your best interest) to talk to them.

Any pilot is free to decide otherwise. Caveat Emptor.

Lee

horrido27

I agree with you. But the problem I see is this- and it has happened to me once-
You have a 650 wake up call in Munich and the wake up calls usually happen pretty close to on time! (German Efficiency) Well, the call at 650ish was from crew scheduling!
So you answer the phone and low and behold, it's not your wakeup call.. it's your soft reset.

What I'm trying to point out is that not answering your cell phone on an international flight is somewhat different than not answering your phone when at home, or on a domestic flight.
Hell, I would say that 30% of the pilots I fly with (internationally) don't have a plan that works overseas!
So it's easy not to pick up your cell phone overseas. A little different with regards to the hotel phone.



Agreed. No excuse. Sometimes, **** happens.


This is where I'm asking the question about what does logging on to our IPad BEFORE actual report time mean.
I boot up the IPad, go to PM and (don't remember how it looks but-) IF the Soft Start is right there in your pairing, and the company knows (since they have the ability to know when we use the IPad) that you just logged into PM.. is that considered 2 way communication?

I can see the case where the company will say it is, and would imagine any lawyer or mediator would too.
I don't use EZCCS but for those who do- doesn't it also log into CCS to get it's info? So "technically", if you use EZCCS but do not acknowledge anything, would the company know you had signed in?

LOL
True!
I too have used past scenarios to keep a log of what to do an what to expect. Problem I find is that what I did/had happened in the past isn't necessarily valid today. Ie, the soft reset was an IT limitation years ago but it isn't today.

Just throwing it out there as it is an interesting discussion and I'm finding that when I talk with fellow crews, there's alot of different interpolations.
Soft Reset's were a thing we use to see flying International on the 756 out of EWR. Now it seems it happens more often than I would like.
Maybe we need some sort of UPA protection for when it happens. Like an hour of add pay if they are going to soft start us!



Thanks for the response!
Always
Motch
FS,FP and FtC~

PS) I write this for discussion purposes only. I do not expect to get any sort of definitive answer since this probably falls under a grey area with regards to 'work rules'.
But think it is something that should be made aware to EVERY pilot, at every airline.

LeeFXDWG

Motch

Only relying to the pilot mobile app aspect.

Officially, PM is not considered notification.

2 options satisfy the the requirement:

2 way phone contact or CCS pairing modification acknowledgement. Period.

As to picking up the phone in the hotel room, I’d simply say wrong room and hang up.

Haven’t personally put in a wake up call in a long time. Alarms on my phone and iPad are more than sufficient.

Lee