Delays and reporting
09-11-2019, 10:50 AM
#31
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: B737 CAPT IAH
Posts: 1,130
09-11-2019, 11:00 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2012
Posts: 511
You're still not answering the scenario in post #18. I'll make it even easier with additional information. The plane is going to an outstation where you know it and the crew stay the night. Routing and legality issues are not a factor. OBTW, it's the last flight of the evening. Zone says go and you're really going to leave people behind?
I fully understand at times we don't have all the information. Pretty sad when the situation is so glaringly obvious, zone tells you to go, and you hide behind "we get paid to fly".
I fully understand at times we don't have all the information. Pretty sad when the situation is so glaringly obvious, zone tells you to go, and you hide behind "we get paid to fly".
09-11-2019, 12:44 PM
#34
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: CAP A320
Posts: 301
Not sure how long you’ve been a Captain, but zone doesn’t give orders to Captains. I’ve brought jetways back on the last flight of the day to get frantic pax on a few times, as well as directed agents to board Jumpseaters who were going to be left behind. You, as the Captain, have the final say of everything that happens on the jet from the time you show up at the gate until you release the crew at the destination. To abdicate your responsibility just because zone said so is just poor form. Btw, I’ve NEVER been called or questioned about such decisions. But the thought of explaining it to somebody doesn’t even move the needle during my calculus.
09-11-2019, 01:00 PM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 1,143
Wrong Answer! You can be ordered to fly. This isn't an unsafe aircraft or operation, so yes you can be ordered and you will comply. And you will be called on instances such as this now. Remember, a notice was put out by this for a reason, so the PIC doesn't make a command decision where you don't have all the information. It's great you came back to the gate to get 4 extra people on board, but you then screw 80 connections at your arrival station. Nothing prevents the PIC from inquiring first with zone and telling them you are flight planned quicker, and to confirm the decision to go. Heck, call the FODM right there since he will be in touch with the NOC. When the NOC tells you to go, what are you going to do now, big guy?! Still refuse cause you are the PIC? Again, they have information you don't, and that's what they emphasized with a notice that PICs must refrain from 'demanding' and 'purposefuly' holding up an operation because they deem it to be fit. This isn't about Captain's Authority's degradation. I'm all for protecting CAP's authority, because it's your airplane. But it's your airplane inside their operation. Your decision with lack of information could be screwing up the bigger picture.
09-11-2019, 01:39 PM
#37
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: 756 Left Side
Posts: 1,629
It resets the start of an FDP with two way communication during the FAR rest period. It doesn’t really make sense but it’s allowed because the by the pilot allowing the two way contact (answering the phone) it’s considered voluntary. Otherwise it could be considered interrupting required rest thereby restarting the FAR rest clock.
Food for thought-
Say van time is 750 with an 815 show.
Wakeup calls are at 650
So the company starts reaching out to us at 650ish to let us know we are delayed, and to 'Soft Reset' us.
Low and behold, one of the pilots answered his phone in the room..
other acknowledged via CCS before van time and I did the same AT van time.
So.. soft reset.
Here's my question-
The time from wakeup to van time is what?
The time from van time to airport time is what?
MANY pilots are acknowledging and FFD'ing before even showing up for the van.
Seems to me, when you FFD at 7am for a 815 airport show/duty you are giving them 1hr and 15 mins of your free time.. and time for them to Soft Reset you.
I am all for moving the mission. And 'typically' I wouldn't even be bothered with an early FFD.. but seems that this new "Soft Reset" game that scheduling is playing is being done to -
1) Keep the operation moving WITHOUT the crews needing to extend.
B) Have data points for any future labor/management 'issues'.
Had I NOT acknowledged the CCS msg, my unSoft Start day would have still started at 815, but they would not have gotten the extra 4 hours that they ended up with.
I would have had to extended.. which I would have done (I get to the airport with my uniform on, I'm spring loaded to lean forward and get the job done).
This Soft Start saved the company about $1600 among the 3 of us~
Food for though
Always
Motch
FS, FP & FtC
09-11-2019, 02:04 PM
#38
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 3,304
I’m beginning to think you aren’t a Captain here, since you seem not to understand what the job entails. Of course we can be ordered to fly. But ONLY by a qualified Management Captain. No NOC rep can order a Captain to do a damned thing. Not gonna waste any more time with this. I, as well as other “C”aptains already know the answer. Feel free to abdicate your authority to whomever you like.
09-11-2019, 02:18 PM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,639
Yikes. It's 2019. The company owns the airplanes and the airline. You're an employee. You operate within the authority given to you by the company. If they want the airplane to depart, barring any safety concerns you might have, you comply. Captains are not God anymore.
The widgets are this way.
09-11-2019, 03:05 PM
#40
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2009
Posts: 1,871
Yikes. It's 2019. The company owns the airplanes and the airline. You're an employee. You operate within the authority given to you by the company. If they want the airplane to depart, barring any safety concerns you might have, you comply. Captains are not God anymore.
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